Please tell me there is something deeply flawed about this study.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...tract/80/5/1571

Either that or I've entered into an alternate universe??

I can't put my finger on what it is, but something isn't right with it.

They're studying a population that already has an incredibly high rate of obesity and T2D, for one. I know most research focuses on the extremes, but it doesn't seem reasonable to study the effects of insulin levels on a population that is already, by and large, insulin-resistant. If you're fully-insulin resistant, of course you won't gain weight. Your cells won't respond to the call to pack away the pounds.

This study [PDF] notes that hyperinsulemia causes weight gain in the young, but weight stall/loss in the aged. This sounds logical and it would be interesting to see some form of analysis on the relationship between insulin secretion, weight and insulin resistance.



The concluding paragraph of the study was what I found to be most interesting.

So, independent of weight, excessive insulin levels are precursors to T2D. Anyone who knows someone diagnosed with T2D knows the diabetic lost significant amounts of weight (my father, for example, lost nearly 60 pounds over 2 to 3 months). Is that weight-loss a good trade off for the resulting diabetes?

Here is a link to download the full article:
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/co...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

Strange results. I could have accepted no correlation between insulin levels and obesity, but an inverse correlation? Wow.

Link doesn't work, Mirrorball. Scribd, mebbe?

http://www.scribd.com/doc/26436846/...ody-weight-gain

There is a section in GCBC where he explains some early research on insulin and blood sugar that helped convince all the diabetologists that everyone should be high carb.

The study went something like: if you constantly snack on carby food, insulin can be relatively lower and blood sugar can be stable without BS highs or crashes - but at the expense of storing fat the whole time. (Note the use of "relative" in the study.)

These researchers are coming from the point of view that fat comes first and then diabetes and insulin resistance follows, and are interpreting the data from that light.

Thanks!

It's not their interpretation that surprised us, it's their results. They found that MORE insulin secreted after a meal or glucose intake meant LESS weight gain in this group of Pima Indians. But from what I could gather, high fasting insulin levels were positively associated with body fat ('Fasting plasma IRI levels were highly correlated to initial fat mass (r = 0.70; P < 0.001)', IRI = immunoreactive insulin). So maybe high insulin is bad only when it's high all the time.

Hmm, you could be on to something there mirrorball, sort of like the difference between physiological insulin resistance and clinical insulin resistance.

I just saw this referenced in another paper and had to follow the trail to see if it backed up the point. In light of your analysis it really doesn't

It is indeed the case. Higher insulin after a meal is normal. It's the fasting insulin that is a marker.

Patrick

I thought that excessive post-meal blood glucose levels were also a marker for T2D. If higher insulin in expectable after a meal, then who decides "how high" is normal? There are traditional and home-made glucose tolerance tests, and *somebody* determines a normal range for post-prandial blood glucose levels. My concern is that these ranges are based on a population absolutely besotted with carbs as a dietary mainstay, and are too high.

It gets better. These authors have published another study on Pima Indians. The conclusion this time? Insulin resistance protects against weight gain. Yep.



Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...report=abstract

I have downloaded the full article. If anyone wants to read it and can't download it, just ask and I'll upload it do Scribd.

I think I'm beginning to understand why these results may be valid. Doesn't insulin resistance hinder glucose-burning and favour fat-burning in muscle cells?

That actually makes sense. Maybe becoming insulin resistant will slow down weight gain. In the same way as when someone becomes T2D, they stop gaining so much weight too, or is that incorrect?

Wow.

Yes, insulin resistance does protect against weight-gain. Severe insulin resistance (T2D), is even known to cause dramatic weight loss.

If all we're going for is weight stability or lowering, then insulin resistance is the way to go.

If, however, we'd also like to live for a bit while thing (and keep our toes and kidneys), it might be a good idea to ignore that insulin resistance can induce weight loss. Some things that cause weight loss aren't really good for us, like...oh, say...cancer?