Hi, folks!

Some fine-tuning questions, if you please:

I tried the dextrose candy trick at the gym the last two days and saw immediate improvement in my work outs, which actually surprised me. I mean, I was giving it my all before, but the dextrose gave me more 'all' to play with. The second day especially, I did my usual leg day workout, upped a lot of my weights, got a pop-eyed look from the male trainer at the reading on my calf machine, and after the whole work-out, I didn't feel jellified enough yet so I went back and did my leg-press set *again* - twice. Then, 10 mins later as I was drinking my Pure Pro and eating the post-WO candies, I felt so jazzed that I was actually tempted to repeat the entire work out. (I didn't. The muscle shakes set in about 10 mins after that, so it was probably a good thing ) And, thanks to 15 g glutamine and good sleep, I am only minimally sore today.

1) So, assuming I like the dextrose addition, do I need to cut my 35-ish daily carbs back to 20 to compensate for the dex hit?

2) If I do a TKD on my work out days, will a 12 hr carb-up be asking for trouble? Can you do both? I am currently *not* carbing up.

3) I think I'd like to try super-setting. Anyone got a good link or resource to tell me what lifts would make good pairs?

Thanks, all!

Friday

Is there an appreciable difference between bonking and depletion aside from depletion being on purpose? I did one or the other today and am trying to figure out which.

Yesterday I was kicking ass and taking names. Today the ass and the name were both mine. I wanted to try super-setting, so I tried it with any two machines that happened to be near each other, and I also made it circuit training. About 4 super-sets in, I started hitting failure in the early second set no matter which muscle group I was doing. Any rest at all had me begging the universe to please just let me be still and go to sleep right there on the bench. It was a coin toss to see if passing out or throwing up seemed like the better option and muscle shakes were everywhere. I think my 'circuit' consisted of about 7 supersets, which seems really wussy. After staggering back to the locker room, I found I had a case of the stupids, too.

"Are those my gloves on the bench beside me? If they are, am I supposed to do something about it?"

This felt a little similar to potassium deficiency, but not really, and it didn't creep up over time. So the question is, did I bonk or deplete?

Am 3 hrs into an unplanned carb-up and I feel peachy. "Honey, take the baby. I need Fruity Pebbles and Gatorade and I need them now."

Cheers,

Friday

Hiyah Toots I'm going to take a stab at your questions - I hate seeing posts go unanswered, but honestly, I don't have all the answers you're looking for.

You might want to take a boo at mom2girl's journal - she's been trying to mix a CKD and TKD and we've been discussing options in there, you might find something that helps.

Honestly, I think those post workout sugar hits shouldn't be counted toward the daily number. If I remember correctly this was also the case when I did the t-dawg diet last year (70g on lifting days, 30g on non lifting days). That hit of carbs has a very specific purpose, and fat storage it aint

Doing the carb up along with a TKD can serve a purpose, to reset leptin levels, and if this is your goal then it would be done based on a schedule of BF%, the ministry of fitness link provides a guide for this. You'd probably end up doing one every 4 or 5 weeks, instead of every weekend. In which case you're still doing a TKD with a refeed every once in a while (I think I'd find that made it easier to plan and would take a lot of the confusion out of it)

Re suppersetting - BSBW has some good workouts, and I know you just got a copy of it. Watch it though - that's a pre-comp exercise plan and it can lead to burn out with all the daily double sessions (advanced portion). ABCbodybuidling.com also has some good routines - great place to waste time!

The difference between bonking and depleting? IMHO the only difference is intent. You intend to deplete, bonking happens by accident (not like this anything you don't know already!). The effects are pretty much the same though, carbs are very low, you're depleted and you might be short on potassium.

Supersetting and circuit training is intense - it makes for a great depletion workout. 7 supersets might seem piddly to you, but when done right it's a fair bit of work. If you had a big workout the day before then had this workout the day after I'm not surprized you 'bonked'. Lesson learned? Wait a few days between these types of workouts!

Like I said, I just don't have much to add.
-N

fridayeyes,
here are answer to some of your questions:
bonking vs depleting is like Nat says, intent. but the major difference is when you bonk, you can stop and rest and/or move on to another exercise, with depleting, you just lower the weight and keep going b/c you're trying to elicit a vaccum effect in preparation of maximal carb absorption soon after your workout.

dextrose addition, are you getting back into or still in ketosis after your workout? i'd experiment with your ketone levels, if you can get away with 30ish grams a day with dextrose right before your workout and still be in ketosis, why not? if it takes you longer to get back into ketosis, then cut you other carbs back by 5 grams until you get to where you want it.

Hope this helps!

Thanks, folks!

I'm totally sold on the TKD and the dreaded Smarties now live in my gymbag. I'm doing about 14 g (two rolls) before and the same after, plus a no-fat, 40 g protein drink. My ketosis isn't budging at all, and since I'm amazed with what it already does to my work outs, I don't see any reason to raise the amount unless 14g post-WO isn't enough for recovery purposes. Three rolls would be 21 g.

The re-feed I'll save for when I feel I need it. Not sure what that's going to look like, but it sure as heck fixed me after last weekend. Also, as of this morning, all the carb-up weight bounce was gone and it took an extra lb with it (buh-bye! Don't come back!).

I'm working thru BSBW slowly, and sort of saving it for after a big test next Tuesday. Until then, I'm mostly doing stuff I already know. There's a gym at school, and with my grad school schedule, I'm hoping to have a lot more leeway on when and how often I work out.

Nat, I snooped thru Mom2's journal the day you posted, actually, and found it quite informative. Thanks!

Mano - vacuum effect, huh? Well, it sure did su**! I think that means I did it right, tho....

Cheers,

Friday