For starters, I'm newbie here.....what a wonderful forum....so many people helping others, God bless the internet and kind caring people.

I have been LC on and off since 1996. I must admit when I combine very LC diet with hardcore exercise, I loose 30 lbs every month. I often need to loose 50 - 100 lbs to return to my goal weight. Somehow after I reach my goal weight, which I always do, I can't remain on the program. I try to control my carb intake, but usually I slip up, and slowly gain back the weight. However, this time I have other plans for maintenance

The reason I struggle with this WOE for life, is due to the tremdous brain fog I experience from lack of sugar in my blood. Atkins mentions the brains prefered fuel is ketone bodies vs. sugars. However, that is not the case for everyone. Once my ketone levels get high, and I continue to maintain low carb intake, my brain fog is so bad, I can barely function. It's a miserable feeling. It makes this WOE very difficult for me, but I sure can't deny the very fast weight loss.

So my question is, does anyone have some tips for shaking the brain fog without using stimulants? If I increase the carbs to 50 a day, from my normal 20, it does help a bit, but the weight loss is substantialy reduced. This can prolong the diet so long, I would quit before reaching my goal. Thank you all in advance.

Hi Jerry, I had this brain fog too.
The way I solved it was to eat when I felt it coming on, but eat LC, so mainly fat and protein - I made almond muffins and snacked on them whenever I felt like this.
This seemed to sort it for me - like you, I was all for giving in, it was so bad.
If upping your carbs fixes it for you, I know what you mean about slowing the weight loss so much you'll give in - but what about just seeing this as the way you'll eat for good now, find nice things you can eat so you don't mind that too much and just plod on. After all, you're going to reach next year anyway (god willing) so you may as well get there thinner than not.

I'm beginning to think about maintenance (my DH is there and I'm going to be soon, hopefully). We've decided to stay off anything with a high glycemic index, cos those are the things that give us cravings and overcome the will power.
Sure, there are some goodies we won't ever eat again, but its not that restrictive and looking and feeling good makes up for them.

Take care, hope you find your answer, Jay

I wonder if looking at this a different way will help you out. You say you've been on and off LC for 6 years. You experience brain fog when your carbs are too low. You get some relief from the brain fog when you increase your carbs, while stilll losing weight.

I guess the big question is, what's more important..losing it faster and feeling icky, then putting it all back on...or...losing it slower, feeling better, and keeping it off?

There's no rule that says you have to stay at 20 gr carbs a day. If you can still lose at 50 gr, then go for 50!!!

It sounds like you're still in the mindset of low carb as a diet (something temporary) instead of a way of life. If you're going to be doing this for the rest of your life, why would you want to quit before you get to your goal weight?
I agree with Angela. If jumping your carbs to 40 or 50 clears up the brain fog and still allows you to lose weight but at a slower pace, go for it. After all, this isn't a race.
Keeping your carbs low and continuing to lose at a fast pace (for those who are lucky enough to be able to do this) isn't the best way to progress towards maintainance. It's better to be slowly increasing your carbs as you go until you stop losing, then back off to continue losing until you get to goal; that way by the time you get to maintainance you'll already have a fairly good idea what your maintainance level of carbs should be.

I agree with everyone here. Looking at LC as a "diet" is one way to fail and mess up your metabolism. If you can lose at 50gs a day then you should just stay at that level. It doesn't matter if you don't lose REALLY quickly. Surely it is better to lose weight slowly and keep it off than lose it all really quickly but gain it back.


My advice is to find a way to make this plan more livable for you long term. I am not a big meat fan so I do the IR diet which allows me to eat 30 g of carbs per meal if I want. You should also find something that works for you long term.


Good Luck!

Look in to CAD/CALP

They are not ketogenic diets, and work for me.

Thank you all for responding.

JayKay.... eating Fat and protein does nothing for my brain fog. Its just pure carbohydrate of any form that eliminates this feeling. This is why the problem is a catch 22. If fat and protein solved the problem, I would embrace this WOE forever, with ease. Two interesting discoveries I have made about this problem. Other than consuming carbs I have found only two methods to help the brain fog, neither are easy.

The first is, when I am feeling really down and brain dead, I do 30 minutes of hardcore exercise, such as running. At first I feel like I will black out, but 10 minutes into the run, this changes and my brain becomes more clear. Secondly, I find by NOT eating protein and fat, and just going on a water fast also helps the problem... I also have less food cravings on a water fast than I do when consuming very LC.

I appreciate your sensible comment about upping the carbs to 50 a day...... but I avoid this for two reasons, the first is, I go from 30 lbs a month of weight loss to less than 5, which is very discouraging and 50 g of carb does not solve the brain fog, it only offers say 20% releif...so the benefits seem not great enough to forgo the rewards. I know it's not the most sensible long term approach, but I need to stay highly motivated or I fall off the wagon very quickly....years of over eating habits kick in and I tend to give in when I am not highly motivated by tremendous successs.

AngelaR ..... > There's no rule that says you have to stay at 20 gr carbs a day. If you can still lose at 50 gr, then go for 50!!!

If 50 worked, I would stick with it! But it barely works, considering all the incredible effort. You mentioned how LC changed your life.... I feel the same way... reading all those books many years ago and following them religiously demonstrated why I gain weight to begin with. I fit the insulin resitance theory perfectly. As mentioned by one of the other posters, I find myself being one of the lucky ones, as LC and intense exercise produces tremendously fast weight loss, and its this type of success that provides the motivation to stay with the program. Nothing motivates a dieter more than success. (of course this varies based on how much weight a person needs to loose) Of course much of this has to do with mind set, I am a very goal oriented person, and when I set a target, its often a race to get there.... In someways this is good, and other ways it can be a bit detrimental. But its hard to change who you are. I have all the admiration in the world for people who can eat LC and experience low weight loss, and continue the program forever.

LisaN > It sounds like you're still in the mindset of low carb as a diet (something temporary) instead of a way of life.

First, Congrats on your tremendous success! Yes, I totally agree with you.... but I do have some good reasons for this, I am curious how many others share these reasons....

One of the reasons I struggle with LC long term is because the foods which are best for my body, are counter productive on the diet. If weight gain was not an issue in my life (which unfortunately it is) my body functions best on a high carb, med fat, med protein diet. I am generally a healthy eater, my body craves fruit and lots of it and I feel great when I eat fruits, and high carb vegies. When I do eat lots of fruit and high carb vegetables and occasionaly some high carb grain, usually only brown rice, no white stuff, I feel fabulous. During these eating periods, I have very limited intake of animal products due to the wide variety of foods I eat. And, carbs keep me satieted very well.

When LC eating, one is pushed into high animal products intake, as these foods are the ones that have no, or low carbs. A diet high in animal products makes me lethargic and more importantly severely effects my joints, making feel very arthritic, which I never feel when I consume very low animal product diet. I have tried the soybean type products, but they make me feel terrible. I later had food allergy testing done, and of course soy was very high on my list.... I also learned, very few people are not highly sensitive to grains and beans. This explains why I feel so wrotten consuming these foods. The allergy test is a blood test where that counts antibodies produced for approx. 250+ foods.... the more antibodies produced for a given food, the more sensitive you are to these foods and therefore should be avoided. Where there is no antibodies in the blood, such as most all fruits and vegetables, (but not for everyone, hence the value of the test) these foods you are free to consume. When I adhere to this program, I feel great! But, it is quite counter productive to LC.

So I guess all this research has led to some internal conflict. The foods that make me feel great and function great, also make me gain weight... (this damn insulin resistance) Foods that I am highly sensitive to, mainly animal, beans and similar products are the ones that make me loose weight fast. No one every said it was going to be easy.

A few other findings I have learned which may interest some readers. When I mention avg weight loss of 30 lbs a month, I have acheived this weight loss while eating 6000 - 8000 calories everyday, but I never let the carbs past 20. This is more than double the calories I normally eat while when I am constantly gaining weight. This is why I beleive so strongly in the insulin resistance theory. The sad part is, my brother eats 8000 calories a day, rarely exercises, eats 500 + carbs a day and has not gained a pound since high school, 25 years ago. But that's life.

Seeing the difference between me and my brother (who is obviously not insulin resistant) lead me to serach for for a method to rid my insulin resistance. With no insulin resistance, I can live like my brother and not be obssessed about WOE for life....what a wonderful feeling that is. And I do beleive I found it. It's called hardcore exercise. Mild exercise does nothing for me when eating normal carbs.... I gain weight, even when calories are very low, such as 1500 per day. However, when I exercise till the point of "white hot" I experience tremendous chemical and hormonal changes in my body....after the initial transition period. When I continue this type of hardcore exercise, which consist of pushing myself to the point of almost blacking out, resting a minute or two, then go right back at it, etc. I find my insulin resistance is totally at rest...meaning I can eat a ton of carbs and a ton of calories and I can't gain weight! However, I do not loose weight as fast this way vs. LC. But when done right, it returns me to my teenage years when I was always lean regardless of how much, or the types of foods I ate. Truly remarkable discovery. So whats my problem? Well, for me, it has beem a multitude of other health issues that have prevented me from continuing this hardcore exercise (only about 1 hr a day). I have suffered some bad injuries and bouts of migraines (hereditary) which have prevented me from consistently maintaining exercise through out the years.... and for me, this has always led to the gradual (sometimes fast) weight gain and the return of insulin resistance. So until there is a pill to rid insulin resistance, it seems a very restrictive diet and / or hardcore exercise are the only solutions currently available. Anyway, hopefully this information may others who are looking for some alternative points of view.

BTW, LinkNZ, what is CAD/CALP?

Every person attacks this differently. I don't mind slow, because that's the way my body works, and I've learned to accept it. I'm also not motivate by the rate of my weight loss anymore(I'm doing this for a whole lot of other reasons) As such, I'm likely not a good source of advice for you.

Eventually you will find a combination that will work for you. I wish you the best of luck working through this dilema.

CAD = Carbohydrate Addicts Diet
CALP = Carbohydrate Addicts Life Plan

Angela, I agree with your comments and should have prefaced my posts by stating the main reason for LC WOE for me is weight loss. After reading many LC books, I certainly do not want to minimize the many other benefits LC WOE improves ones health. Weight loss is merely one aspect of its many benefits.

Jerry...

I do have a couple more questions.
First; how long have you tried to stick it out with the brain fog problem? The reason that I ask is that often people experience this when they are going through carb withdrawal, but if they stick it out through the full 2 weeks of induction without cheating, it usually clears up. If it doesn't, then something else is going on.
Second; how much water do you consume daily? You mention that your ketone levels get high (I'm not sure how you are measuring this, but I'll take you at your word that they're high). The best solution for that is to push the water so that your body can flush the excess ketones through your kidneys. Water intake should be a minimum of 64 oz. daily and most recommend an additional 8 oz. for every 25 lbs. that you wish to lose which for you would be an additional 48 oz. for a total of 112 oz of water (ony water counts towards this total) daily. Another option, and honestly one that I think is a better way to go, would be to slow down the weight loss; slower weight loss would result in less ketones being produced from fat burning. A pound a day is pretty extreme weight loss and your body may simply be telling you that it doesn't like it even if you do. Just because you can lose 30 lbs a month doesn't make it a good idea to do so. It could even be more dangerous to your health than carrying those extra pounds for a few more months.
Third; do you take any supplements on a regular basis? If you are losing a pound a day, most likely you are low on electrolytes, particularly potassium and possibly also magnesium and calcium as well. Low levels of electrolytes can make you feel lethargic with poor concentration, sometimes muscles also feel sore.
Fourth; is it possible that you have a sensitivity to arachidonic acid? This is found in red meat and eggs and those who are particularly sensitive to if find that it can make them feel miserable. The solution to that would be to either avoid foods that contain arachidonic acid or to take fish oil with every meal that contains those foods.

You mention that with low carb you are forced into a high animal products intake. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case. For most people on Atkins, fat makes up the majority of their daily caloric intake at about 65-70%, protein comes second at 25-30% and carbs make up the balance. Atkins is really more of a high fat diet than a high protein one.

Whatever you do, you will need to find a method of getting your weight to a good level and keeping it there. Losing large amounts of weight only to regain it takes a large toll on your body and your health and eventually you'll find that you can't lose 30 pounds a month anymore.

Hi Jerry!

(edit: I posted at the same time as Lisa. I don't mean to sound like a parrot. )

>>"So until there is a pill to rid insulin resistance..."

Has a doctor confirmed your insulin resistance? ie with a glucose tolerance test with insulin levels? If so, Glucophage (metformin) might be an option. It helps reduce blood sugar and insulin levels. It's being used increasingly to treat women with PCOS, for example.

Now, purely for the purpose of brainstorming, are you certain that the brain fog is lack-of-carbs related? Have you considered picking up a cheap glucometer to check your blood sugar levels? Some people (like yours truly) will experience symptoms at a high or low level, and it's not necessarily outside of the "official" normal range. But you can figure out your patterns and your "personal" reference range.

Is there any other pattern to the brain fog? Could you be deficient in some nutrient or another, like potassium? Do you have any symptoms of depression? Are you on any medications that could cause the 'zombiness' as a side effect? You don't have to answer those questions; I'm just tossing ideas out.

Anyway, take care, and good luck finding the balance you're seeking.

Lisa N

Congrats on your success! You raise some great points, and I am interested in your responses....

> First; how long have you tried to stick it out with the brain fog problem?

The longest I have lasted on 20 g a day, is for about 4 months straight. The brain fog never went away for me. The best I can do is minimize it, as I explained above. I read that most peoples brains burn ketones very effeciently for fuel, even Atkins states its the brains preferred fuel. However, there is a certain % of people whereas this is not true, I must fall into this category, because a good dose of carbs brings me right back to normal. But I am open to listening to other possible causes.

> Second; how much water do you consume daily?

On a normal day, when I work out, I consume between 1 - 1.5 gallons a day. On a non work out day, .75 - 1 gallon a day. I do monitor my ketones, and I do urinate often, so I do not beleive the high ketone count is a result highly concentrated urine, but occasionaly this can happen. My ketone count seems to correlate very well with my weight loss. I know this is not true with everyone.

> Another option, and honestly one that I think is a better way to go, would be to slow down the weight loss; slower weight loss would result in less ketones being produced from fat burning. A pound a day is pretty extreme weight loss and your body may simply be telling you that it doesn't like it even if you do. Just because you can lose 30 lbs a month doesn't make it a good idea to do so. It could even be more dangerous to your health than carrying those extra pounds for a few more months.

I do agree with your comments above, and this time, I think I will take it a bit slower. Now that I am in my 40's, my body is not quite as resilant as it was just a few years ago. I appreciate these comments.

> Third; do you take any supplements on a regular basis?

In the past, I used to take many supplements, many of them Atkins. However, when I experimented by not taking them, I felt no better or worse. This time I am taking a green powder drink called super food, by Garden of Eaten. It consists of a ton of greens and is highly nutritious... I felt this would be a more natural way to get nutrition. BTW, if I was to add supplements to this, which ones would you say are most critical when loosing weight?

> Fourth; is it possible that you have a sensitivity to arachidonic acid? This is found in red meat and eggs and those who are particularly sensitive to if find that it can make them feel miserable.

I have read about this before, but have not paid enough attention to it. How can I find out if this is the case with me? Is there a test? Chicken does not bother me at all, but red meat and eggs do..... is this an indication of this condition? Hmmmm.....

> The solution to that would be to either avoid foods that contain arachidonic acid or to take fish oil with every meal that contains those foods.

Does the fish oil negate the arachidonic acid? Any paticular type? What about Flax oil, I take a TBSP of it everyday?

> You mention that with low carb you are forced into a high animal products intake. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Can you please suggest some foods that I can eat, considering I just may have this sensitivity to arachidonic acid, allergic to seafoods and feel wrotten when I eat Soy, or any bean products? Other than a few types of nuts, I just can't think of much else? This is why I struggle so hard with this WOE, long term.

> Whatever you do, you will need to find a method of getting your weight to a good level and keeping it there. Losing large amounts of weight only to regain it takes a large toll on your body and your health and eventually you'll find that you can't lose 30 pounds a month

You are so right.... It kills me emotionaly that I somehow allow this to happen througout my life. I am not proud of it and I know its very unhealthy. After I acheive my goal weight, which seems a mile away right now because I am just starting again, I have a new game plan for maintenance. I have learned a lot about what does not work in the past and now I think I can approach the maintenance more sensibly. And you be very right about the weight loss, the older I am getting the less likely I will be able to loose weight so fast.... this go around, I may unfortunately find this to be true. Although I have been lucky in the past with 30 lbs a month average weight loss, I will not be dissapointed if I only loose 20 lbs a month this time. That is still considered fast by most peoples standards.

BTW, I would also like to mention something.... in my experience, the ol adage, that men loose fat easier than woman seems to be very true. I have been on this diet with many woman, we eat the same foods, except I eat way more than they do (its nice to have a team mate in these endeavors). Even woman in their 20's who had to loose a substantial amount of weight never lost weight at my pace and yet we were on the same program of diet and exercise. Most would average 8 lbs a month after the first few weeks. This is still considered excellent weight loss, but many of them got discouraged and bailed early. (Its a shame everyone wants a quick fix, but I guess its just human nature, specially for the younger dieters) Since I have a fair amount of muscle and am pretty tall, I think this provides more opportunity to burn fat.

Kristine, thanks for your input.....

> Has a doctor confirmed your insulin resistance? ie with a glucose tolerance test with insulin levels?

No, this is pure speculation based on the fact I have been on low calorie, low fat diets of 1200 calories a day and for 3 months straight I never lost a pound. Yet on very LC diet, I can consume 6000 - 8000 calories a day and loose about a pound a day. Its this math that convinced me I fit the description perfectly. I can't even find a Dr. that understands the term insulin resistance? Can you tell me about the test? How reliable is it? How successful has the Glucophage been in treating the condition? Very interesting, maybe this is the pill I am looking for :-) I am interested in learning more.

> Now, purely for the purpose of brainstorming, are you certain that the brain fog is lack-of-carbs related? Have you considered picking up a cheap glucometer to check your blood sugar levels?

I do not religiously check my blood sugar levels. Of course when I am eating only 20 g carbs a day, I would assume my level is low, that is only to be expected, right? The reason I suspect its the lack of carbs feeding my brain, which is creating the fog, is because one dose of carbs and the problem always clears up immediately. And when I am not LC, I never suffer this fog. Unless I am very tired due to no sleep for a day or two.... but that is to be expected. Is there a way you can suggest I monitor my sugar level to investigate this further? I have a glucometer.

> Is there any other pattern to the brain fog? Could you be deficient in some nutrient or another, like potassium?

Well, I doubt it, otherwise the moment I eat an apple, the fog goes away. (this is my cheat when I am really dragging and need to be fully coherent on a given day) If I was deficeint in a nutrient, and it was the cause of the fog, I doubt the apple would clear it up?

> Do you have any symptoms of depression?

No, other than the fact I get aggrevated I can't eat the foods I want :-) But the LC WOE does make me "slightly" less motivated, less positive, less zip, vs. when I am eating high carbs, say 200 - 250 grams a day.

> Are you on any medications that could cause the 'zombiness' as a side effect? You don't have to answer those questions; I'm just tossing ideas out.

No, I rarely if ever take medications, I never smoked, have not drank in 20 years, no recreational drugs....Geeez, no wonder I want to eat all the time! :-)

Jerry12
You asked about CAD/CALP. There is a CAD/CALP forum on the board. I suggest you go there and read and read some of the journals of people posting on the forum. I also suggest that you go to the Hellers website and take the Carbohydrate Addict test. This test will tell you if you fit their profile and if their diet will be helpful for you.

A carbohydrate addict as the Hellers define functions well with carbohydrates in his/her diet except that ingesting carbs creates additional hunger and cravings for more and more carbs, insulin resistance and rapid weight gain. They control insulin resistance and weight gain by concentrating carbs in one meal and for any other meal carbs are minimal. Therefore, the carbohydrate addict can have the carbs they need to function without weight gain and lose weight and maintain their loss.

From your posting, you sound like a classic carbohydrate addict to me (just my opinion) and their plan might be helpful to you.

Hi Jerry.

>>"Can you tell me about the test?"

Yep, it's the standard test used to diagnose diabetics. You start with a fasting sugar, then you chug a really sugary drink. Then, blood is taken every hour for three hours (sometimes five) and your blood sugar are measured. If your doctor is looking for IR, s/he'd order insulin levels as well. If your sugar is normal but your insulin levels are high, that's the indication of insulin resistance. It means your body has to pump out an abnormally high amount of insulin to get it to do its job. The test is quite reliable.

Theoretically, if you ignored the problem and kept on eating carbs, that test down the road would probably have abnormal insulin *and* abnormal sugar, and you're a type II diabetic.

I'm not sure about the success rate of glucophage and insulin resistance, because the majority of doctors wait until you're a full-blown diabetic to start giving it to you. Here's a link: http://www.drmirkin.com/diabetes/9899.html . Dr Mirkin specializes in sports medicine as well as diabetes and he has an interesting national radio show. I don't agree with 100% of his ideas, but at least he backs up what he says with journal references.

>>"I would assume my level is low, that is only to be expected, right?"

Nope. Actually, it should be within a normal range. But who knows: maybe your body just isn't as good as someone else's body at keeping your levels up. I, for example, feel fantastic at 20 g carbs, and my sugar is perfectly normal all day. But perhaps yours just tends to run on the 'low' end of normal, and you can feel it, so you need that apple's worth of carbs here and there throughout the day.

As for when to test yourself, I'd do it on occasion when you suspect it's too low, ie when you get that brain fog. I'm only an 'expert' on my own sugar levels because I'm a lab tech, and any time I'd feel the symptoms while at work, I'd say, "hey Irma, look at me, I'm shaking and sweaty. Run my sugar."

Ouch, look at the time. Gotta get to work. If I forgot to answer any of your questions, reply and I'll get back to you later. Have a good day!