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  #31   ^
Old Sun, Feb-11-07, 11:45
jwc jwc is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 78
 
Plan: Atkins/IF
Stats: 210/153/145 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 88%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant

I came to this board for low-carb support, instead I have to read silly CRONbie postings.




Mutant,

You don't HAVE to read anything you don't want to. It is evident you DO want to read CR posts judging from your instantaneous replies. It's pretty easy not to read something you know you will disagree with. When we see Whoa's posts. the entire forum knows we can count on you to read the post and disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
Also, CRONbie eating causes testosterone to PLUMMET resulting in erectile disfunction and other physical characteristics of being a man. BTW, erectile disfunction is a common complaint of the CRONbie afflicted.


I don't get your fascination with CR and ED??? You seem to find a way to bring it into most of your posts. Agree or disagree with the CR lifestyle, I consider Whoa a classy person-he never moves into the offensive name-calling mode that most of us would have in response to some of your posts.

Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your own way.

A diplomat you are not.
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  #32   ^
Old Sun, Feb-11-07, 12:54
Mutant's Avatar
Mutant Mutant is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 332
 
Plan: DiPasquale Radical Diet
Stats: 301.5/260.2/260 Male 71
BF:25%/?%/15%
Progress: 100%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwc
You don't HAVE to read anything you don't want to.


I find it curious that people can't take their own advice. Thanks for adding the the discussion, truly illuminating!

Kind regards

>insert skinny monkey picture here<
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  #33   ^
Old Sun, Feb-11-07, 15:30
athena11's Avatar
athena11 athena11 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 2,388
 
Plan: semi-low carb
Stats: 127/127/114 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 0%
Location: Great Lakes
Default Excellent comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilli
wow. what a fight. ummm, why? at least whoa is relying on studies rather than insults to back up his arguments...I find it disrespectful to this wonderful website that some of the posters above are using insults to make their points.

The truth is, we DON'T KNOW whether CR is going to do what it claims yet. It is too new a practice. The human studies have simply not been done yet. And while animal studies very, very often provide great, and otherwise missing insight into the human condition, there needs to be a HUMAN study with CR. I feel that the individuals who practice CR are doing a service to science by sticking to the diet. In 30, 50, years the scientific community will have a MUCH greater insight into the actual benefits and effects of a CR lifestyle, and this will be the direct result of the dedication current CRers' have-- (i highly doubt it would be possible to pay people to stick to a CR study for the rest of their lives...I know i wouldn't do it...i look forward to spending my 60th birthday in a fancy restaurant, with pizza on the side...) Without these people, the (IMO) very interesting questions raised by CR hypotheses would not be answered! I don't see why anyone has a problem with this.
Especially us, lowcarbers, who follow a strict diet that many people don't agree with or see a point to. We are, for the most part, doing it for health and a long life. Same as CR. Personally, i find it extremely interesting a question. I don't want to live 200 years myself, (and don't neccessarily think that humans should, at all,) but it is none the less very intriguing to me.

And to say that CR is the same as anorexia-- that is wrong and insulting. Anorexia is a DISEASE, a terrible life threatening disease. Most anorexics never eat even CLOSE to 1,000 calories a day, and if they did, you can bet they purged it afterward. There is NOTHING healthy about anorexia, and absolutely NO focus on health and nutrients (as there is with CR). And to say that CRers' and anorexics look the same, is also just wrong. To say this, you've obviously never actually compared someone who eats 1,000 calories a day to an anorexic. There is a huge difference in the way they look, which i won't even go into because it makes me sick to have to explain.


I think the true character of someone is revealed when they need to personally attack another person, just for a differing point of view. You'd think as a low carb adherent, with so many people against this WOL, you wouldn't want to react in kind.

I still think this is a wonderful website, but human nature is sometimes people feel better about themselves when they attack others.
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  #34   ^
Old Sun, Feb-11-07, 16:46
jwc jwc is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 78
 
Plan: Atkins/IF
Stats: 210/153/145 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 88%
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant
I find it curious that people can't take their own advice. Thanks for adding the the discussion, truly illuminating!

Kind regards

>insert skinny monkey picture here<


I'm not the one who complained about HAVING to read anything. I enjoy reading Whoa's posts. I am never afraid of learning something new through intelligent discourse whether I agree with it or not. However, if the only way you can find to disagree with someone is to attempt to demean their dignity, then that is not intelligent discourse.
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  #35   ^
Old Mon, Feb-12-07, 14:14
j13's Avatar
j13 j13 is offline
Posts: 2,033
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 445/305/220 Male 6'
BF:
Progress: 62%
Location: Connecticut! From Jersey!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
J13, it almost sounds like you are saying that everyone that does low carb is somehow not doing CR... You know that we have low carb CRers who eat around 50-100g a day in the CRS? Low carb lifestyle results in low calorie intake, naturally. Therefor, why the hell wouldn't one be interested in the benefits of CR, which is part of a low carb plan, whether or not they are intentially restricting calories.

CR just stands for Calorie Restriction. It doesn't stand for any *particular* diet. So its not like i'm throwing out "EVERYONE EAT LOW FAT!"


No, you're not saying that, and yes, people who eat low carb tend to eat less calories. But they do NOT count calories. Calories never enter into it. You'd know that if you did low carb. CR, which is what you're pushing, is not a carb-counting diet. It is a calorie counting diet. Low carb people tend to eat less calories than they would otherwise because that's a natural consequence of being on a LC diet plan. CR is CALORIE restriction. Not CARBOHYDRATE restriction. CR IS NOT A PART OF A LOW CARB PLAN - at least not as the term LC is used in the typical lexicon of dieting. YOU ARE WRONG. STOP SAYING THAT.

And while it may be true that there may be CR people who do LC, your argument is painfully weak. How many people on here, other than you, do CR? Keep in mind that I'm NOT asking "how many people on here eat less calories than they otherwise would." What, then, are you doing on here OTHER than pushing an agenda?? You don't read low carb books, you don't struggle with your weight (at least not in the same sense as everyone else on the board), you don't offer support, you don't offer insights that are relevant to the kinds of issues and problems faced by people on the board - you just come in and post articles (that never have anything to do with low carb) and write posts that push CR - which, again, IS NOT LC.

Are LC and CR both diets? Yes. But you're like a born-again christian posting on a muslim message board about Jesus, then saying "but we're both judeochristian religions, and you believe in Jesus, too!" to rationalize your pushing issues that aren't pertinent or helpful to the dominant group. You might think your doing something positive, but you're not helpful and your actions are occasionally destructive to the community at large. Honestly, you should stop.

Once again, for emphasis:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoa182
Therefor, why the hell wouldn't one be interested in the benefits of CR, which is part of a low carb plan, whether or not they are intentially restricting calories.


CR IS NOT A PART OF A LOW CARB PLAN. This is wrong. The INTENTION of restricting calories is at the crux of a CALORIE restriction diet. IT IS NOT taken into consideration for a LC diet. And the fact is that your posts to the site reek of CR salesmanship rather than objective contribution, precisely because you DON'T contribute in any other way. Again, honestly, please just stop.

-j.
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  #36   ^
Old Mon, Feb-12-07, 17:46
jwc jwc is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 78
 
Plan: Atkins/IF
Stats: 210/153/145 Female 5'4"
BF:
Progress: 88%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j13
No, you're not saying that, and yes, people who eat low carb tend to eat less calories. But they do NOT count calories. Calories never enter into it.



Not necessarily true. For a large majority of us, at some point in our low carb weight loss calorie counting absolutely becomes necessary in order to continue losing. I did fine only counting carbs until I hit about 170. Then I spent the next year trying to figure out how to tweak carbs and so on so I would lose again. People had lots of helpful advice about increasing carbs, decreasing carbs, increasing food and so on. Increasing food only made me gain, even at less than 20 g/day carbs. Then, I tried calorie counting along with low carb and ...Bingo-started losing again. This is very common as people get closer to their goal weight. If I keep calories at around 1,000, I lose. If I get higher than 1,200, I stay the same or gain.
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  #37   ^
Old Mon, Feb-12-07, 20:42
TBoneMitch TBoneMitch is offline
OOOOOOOOOH YEAH!
Posts: 692
 
Plan: High Fat/IF
Stats: 215/170/160 Male 5 feet 10 inches
BF:27%/12%/8%
Progress: 82%
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Default

There is absolutely no reason why CR can not be compatible with LC, and I for one am interseted in the benefits of CR.

I also like healthy debate, but not insults.
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  #38   ^
Old Mon, Feb-12-07, 23:33
BoBoGuy's Avatar
BoBoGuy BoBoGuy is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,178
 
Plan: Low Carb - High Nutrition
Stats: 213/175/175 Male 72 Inches
BF: Belly Fat? Yes!
Progress: 100%
Location: California
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBoneMitch
There is absolutely no reason why CR can not be compatible with LC, and I for one am interseted in the benefits of CR.

I also like healthy debate, but not insults.


I am also totally confused as to why anyone would think that LC and CR are incompatible? The almost amazing health benefits of CR combined with a LC lifestyle would seem to be the best of both worlds. Matt has never suggested that we should choose between one or the other, but has hinted they could be merged. I think he is 100% correct!

Weight loss is wonderful but without the best possible health, what does our future hold?

Bo

Last edited by BoBoGuy : Tue, Feb-13-07 at 18:24. Reason: typo
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  #39   ^
Old Tue, Feb-13-07, 18:21
Lisa N's Avatar
Lisa N Lisa N is offline
Posts: 12,028
 
Plan: Bernstein Diabetes Soluti
Stats: 260/-/145 Female 5' 3"
BF:
Progress: 63%
Location: Michigan
Default

Quote:
As far as 'disrespect'... how would you judge someone who is clearly not interested in low-carb dieting, has not bothered to read a single low-carb book that compulsively posts to a LOW-CARB SUPPORT FORUM on subjects unrelated to low-carb dieting?


Interesting to note that at the CR support forum, they have this posted on the front page:

Quote:
TO TAKE PART IN OUR DISCUSSIONS OR TO POST QUESTIONS, IT IS MANDATORY TO HAVE READ DR. WALFORD'S "BEYOND THE 120 YEAR DIET", AVAILABLE IN MOST PUBLIC LIBRARIES.


Sure, CR and Low Carb could be compatible but I admit I also find it curious that a CR adherant who has support forums of their own would spend so much time on another forum pushing their plan when they have not read any information whatsoever regarding the plan/concept the forum they are visiting supports. Seems a little presumptuous to me to show up touting your plan as so superior when you haven't read anything at all about the other guy's concepts, don't you think?
Interested in CR? How about joining the CR support group (after having read the book, of course) to discuss it with more than one person and suggest that CR and Low Carb might be a good mix? Tell 'em Whoa/Matt sent you.

Last edited by Lisa N : Tue, Feb-13-07 at 18:27.
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  #40   ^
Old Tue, Feb-13-07, 18:58
kneebrace kneebrace is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,429
 
Plan: atkins/ IF
Stats: 162/128/130 Male 175
BF:
Progress: 106%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j13
CR IS NOT A PART OF A LOW CARB PLAN. This is wrong. The INTENTION of restricting calories is at the crux of a CALORIE restriction diet. IT IS NOT taken into consideration for a LC diet. And the fact is that your posts to the site reek of CR salesmanship rather than objective contribution, precisely because you DON'T contribute in any other way. Again, honestly, please just stop.

-j.


Sums it up pretty well.
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  #41   ^
Old Tue, Feb-13-07, 19:06
TarHeel's Avatar
TarHeel TarHeel is offline
Give chance a chance
Posts: 16,944
 
Plan: General LC maintenance
Stats: 152.6/115.6/115 Female 60 inches
BF:28%
Progress: 98%
Location: North Carolina
Default

I find it surprising that so many members have not simply implemented the ignore button for Whoa. As far as i'm concerned, he's on another planet.
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  #42   ^
Old Tue, Feb-13-07, 19:31
Snacky's Avatar
Snacky Snacky is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 225
 
Plan: atkins/keckwick
Stats: 282/248/210 Male 73
BF:%/34%/25%
Progress: 47%
Location: KC area
Default

The keckwick diet which atkins is based on is LC and CR atkins based his research on the keckwick/pawan diet. I actually keep my body guessing by resorting to Keckwick a few days out of the week, over 75% fat and 1000 cals. There are lots of ways to do it guys. basically i'm just saying do what works for you

Last edited by Snacky : Tue, Feb-13-07 at 19:38.
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  #43   ^
Old Tue, Feb-13-07, 19:33
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
Default

That CR support forum are just a a few hundred original members of CRS moved over there because they practice a very mild CR. And I disagree with their statement that you should have to read a book just to post there... and many of their other rules which are extremely strict and silly IMO.

I don't know that group because I don't really post there.

Quote:
As far as i'm concerned, he's on another planet.


Lets hope so, one day...

Last edited by Whoa182 : Tue, Feb-13-07 at 19:40.
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  #44   ^
Old Wed, Feb-14-07, 00:25
Rosebud's Avatar
Rosebud Rosebud is offline
Forum Moderator
Posts: 23,886
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 235/135/135 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 100%
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Default

I can't help but wonder what the CRON folk would say if we all whizzed over to one or more of their boards and started touting LC.

Rosebud
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  #45   ^
Old Wed, Feb-14-07, 02:13
Whoa182's Avatar
Whoa182 Whoa182 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 1,770
 
Plan: CRON / Zone
Stats: 118/110/110 Male 5ft 7"
BF:very low
Progress: 100%
Location: Cardiff
Default

Rosebud, they are all moderated. So no post gets through without a mod reading them first. As posts require references and scientific research to back up the statements you make. Unfortunately there are no boards like this that are used by CRers.

But I think we do have hundreds of lowcarb CRers. We have low fat CRers, high fat, high protein, low protein, zone style, vegetarians, vegans... everyone... Its CR, not any particular *diet*

Last edited by Whoa182 : Wed, Feb-14-07 at 02:25.
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