I have been on low carb for 4 days. i bought some ketostix and they are reading moderate 40 mg/dl. What is the level you need to be at for good fat loss. does it need to be dark purple? will the readings get darker over time if i keep with it? thanks,


greg

Yes, I'd like an answer to this question as well from someone who really KNOWS what they are talking about. You will read two different opinions on this that are thrown around pretty regularly. One is that you are either "in" or "out" of ketosis---there is no benefit to being darker purple or whatever. As long as you are in, you are burning. If you go darker, you aren't drinking enough water, they say.

Then you will hear/read other remarks that the darker your color, the more fat you are burning.

I'd like to know WHICH one is the truth.

Hey ya could do a search, theres been like a million posts about this topic lately.. You'd find yer answer quicker..

Yes, a search would be a good idea. Try "Ketosis" and "dark" You can also go to the top of this forum and check through the Hot Links! post. Karen has organized the thread and there is a whole section on Ketosis.

Nat

I thin Jacobsdad deserves a better answer than that. WHat's the point of a discussion forum if people can't ask questions? If everyone just did their own research exclusively, there would be no discussion. Just my 2 cents...

I'm sorry, ally, I don't really KNOW the answer. I know what my experience tells me. I know that by using the search feature on this board I can find various opinions on Ketostix and ketosis. I know that this forum contains a wealth of information and that it is often better to go looking for it rather than wait for someone to come along and answer. I know this because that is how I form my opinions and how I learned about my WOL. I also know that by looking for something you often find valuable information you didnt know you needed. And I know that when you find out something for yourself you learn you can find out other things, making you more apt to help others the next time someone else has a question.

This is a discussion board, it is also a community where participation by many makes it a better place.

Just my 2 cents.
Nat

As a Newbie, I have yet to master all of the functions of this board, but I must say that I didn't get a real welcoming feeling from most of the group(Alleyoop Excluded). I tried the search function last night and couldn't get it to work properly. However I pretty much got my answer in a matter of minutes by posting the question. Plus I didn't have to filter through 30 other posts to find what I am looking for. I think most of the advice was well intended but keep in mind if we are posting in the newbies fourm then I think it can be assumed that we are NEW to this. Thanks,
Jacobsdad.

P.S. It tastes like a skunk crawled in my mouth so I am relatively sure that I am in Ketosis

Okay, I do know the answer, but the reason there isn't any standard answer is because there is some disagreement.

We all know that lipolysis (fat burning) causes ketones to be released in blood and urine.

The short answer is from the Atkins website:
What shade of purple should my lipolysis testing strips be? Will they show different levels at different times of day?
Because every person's metabolism is different, the sticks turn different shades of purple or pink for different people. And, yes, results vary depending upon the time of the day, whether or not you exercise and what you last ate. It doesn’t matter whether your strips turn a dark or light color. Some people never even get into ketosis, but still lose weight easily. So don’t worry about the exact level of ketosis shown on your test strips; what is more important is how your clothes are fitting, what the scale says and how you feel.
http://atkinscenter.com/helpatkins/...ysis/index.html

The long answer is this:
Ketones are only flushed out the urinary tract when there is an excess that the body isn't using. Therefore, your blood ketone level could be 80 milligrams per deciliter (mg/dL) while your ketostix could say "trace" 5 mg/dL. It depends if your body needed to use all the ketones for fuel. If you didn't eat very much fat and you ate few calories and you exercised, you might be in trace. However, if you ate a lot of fat and ate few calories and exercised, you might be in heavy ketosis according to the strips. What your blood ketosis is may very well be different. Drinking water dilutes the ketones in the urine so your blood ketones may be high but your ketostix may be trace.

If your ketostix read trace to heavy, you are in some kind of ketosis. This means you are in lipolysis and your body is burning fat for fuel. How much you are in ketosis can't really be determined exactly by the ketostix. If you are losing weight fast, you are in heavy ketosis no matter what the ketostix read.

Now, here is where I don't want to alarm anyone. There are side-effects that occur in a small minority of people in heavy ketosis (the deep purple kind). This can mean that your pH body balance is off. Your blood is too acidic. But you really can't tell unless you did a blood ketone test. However, to be on the safe side, drinking lots of water and eating your three cups of vegetables (which are bases that neutralize acids) you can ensure that your blood ketones are not so high that your blood is acidic. Potassium is a good base to neutralize acid and we lose it in ketosis.

Bottom line: Although the purple on the ketostyx may mean that you are burning a lot of ketones (too much to use as fuel, so it goes out the urinary tract) it may also mean your body pH is off, so purple is not the best color on the ketostix (even though it may be fine for some depending on blood ketone level). Trace is less likely to have any side-effects. As long as you are losing weight you are doing well.

I do believe Ally was referring to my post in the Atkin's forum on this when I answered gc1, and Rustpot countered with another view.

Voyajer thanks for posting an answer directly from the Atkin's website confirming my viewpoint on the strips. It really doesn't matter what color those little paper things are. Pink, purple, dark purple.....

Hate to have to say it but I agree with allyoop and jacobsdad on this one.

Furthermore, don't forget that search engines such as Google crawl their way through web based forums like this one. If someone posts a question, and you tell them to search for the answer, that's all very well, but the result of that is that when they do perform the search, they end up with reams and reams of links to threads where the same question has been asked, but which tell you to use a search facility to find the answer.

And when Google and Alltheweb crawl through it, it prevents anyone from ever finding a sensible answer off the search engines too - all you ever get is links to web forums or newsgroups with posts that tell you to use a search engine - just like you've already done. I have frequently had this problem in the past. Admittedly it has occurred mostly when I have questions about techie stuff to do with computers, video and music, but it's very frustrating, and I don't want to see the same thing happen to serious health discussions.

My rule of etiquette for forums is this - NEVER post to tell people to use a search engine to find the answer to their questions. It's rude. That goes for newsgroups too. Moderators honestly ought to know better. Moving the thread up the list and posting to say that you would like to find out more about the same subject is okay, but apart from that, if you're not able to give any specific answers to any of the questions, you shouldn't be posting in that thread at all.

Hope people support me on that one.

That dosen't happen on this board..



Sorry but I don't see it that way at all. It's not like I or anyone else said to go away and find the answer yourself.... That would be RUDE. I was merely saying that this question was just asked a few times recently (infact yesterday, I think..so it should still be on the first or 2nd page/ not to mention in the stickylink at the top of the page) and they would find the answers quicker if they searched..

I usually just tell ppl to search when it seems like they're just looking for flat out answers and don't even seem like they did any research at all to try and find their answer. This board is full of repeated questions asked over and over again. I admit I've asked a few questions that the regs have probably read a million times, but when I was givin a link or told where to go, I wasn't offended by it or anything..I always got my answer +more.

Karen posted a great sticklylink at the top of the page with lots of great info on it. Everything and more newbies would want to know. I'm not a newbie and I still read and reread some of those links. They're very helpful. There are some ketosis links in there too..
And I didn't answer this one because it seems like he just went out and bought ketostix and dosen't even know anything about them except that dark purple means you're burning alot of fat No offense, but Theres more to it then that, which is why I said to search..figuring he'd find his answer and probably more great info he didn't even know but would want to know. Sorry though, I could have posted a link but I just figured that it was still on the first page and they'd see it..or they'd click the stickylinks..guess not though. My mistake.

And hey, you want to talk about rude? I actually though allyoops post was rude..The way she wrote "I'd like to know WHICH one is the truth" Like what is that saying? That only a few ppl on here know the truth and the rest are lying and making up answers just for the hell of it? Especially when she said herself that there are "different opinions" on it. Go figure. That would make people not want to answer her just by the way she wrote it. I won't even say what I thought about it. But hey, thats just my opinion.

Course, I think that I have to be very careful here to prevent this thread descending into a troll-match, and I don't want to see that happen. Harmless trolling is all good and fun, but that's what the lighter side forums are for, so we don't get it in the technical forums. So I'll try to stick to the point, forgive me if I make any boo-boos on my choice of words.


Oh yes it does. I did a search with Google a few weeks ago, and it came up with a link to one of the threads in the addiction forum. That's how I found this forum in the first place. That time, I found useful information. I'd like to think that this will continue to happen in the future. I'm enthusiastic about low carb now, but I wasn't then. If that search had brought me onto a thread which tells people to go use a search engine or do their own research, I wouldn't have bothered looking any further. That would have meant I would have missed out, and my life since then would have probably panned out far differently as a result.

I'm just trying to defend the newbie here. The most telling statistic is that jacobsdad has still only made two posts, both of which have been in this thread. I think you should cut some slack to the newbie, because if you don't, future newbies will see it, and the forum won't get any more of them. Moreover, I don't see any need to make any point about who has posted the rudest thing in this thread. Your (Slim's) response suggests that you've taken my comments personally and are trying to deflect - but I didn't intend anyone to take anything personally in the first place, so I'm a bit disappointed with myself with the thought that my choice of words might have caused that to happen.

Take your point about allyoop's post ... but it never occurred to me that it could be directed at specific regulars on this forum. I assumed that it equally referred to remarks she'd heard on other web based forums, newsgroups, radio phone-ins or in discussions she had had with relatives, neighbours or colleagues. Again, I think you're taking that one on yourself when it's not intended. You can't deny that there's a lot of misinformation about low carb doing the rounds, which is another very good reason for having a forum like this one, and trying to preserve the quality of the discussions on it.

I also think that posting questions on forums can be a good way of finding out answers, and it's great that there are people who are able to offer informative answers. That's the whole point of forums, and I want to support both the newbie's and regular's ability to do this. But it's not an alternative to searching. When I post a question, I do my own searching as well, but I obviously don't bother to say that every time. I guess most people realise that without you having to spell it out, but if they don't, then that's their problem, not yours. I think it's safe to assume that everyone here knows how to use search engines, because if they didn't, they probably wouldn't be here in the first place.

If a forum covers a subject I happen to be clued up about and feel like I want to help people out with, then I will specifically home in on the threads with the lowest post count first. I know that it can be disheartening when you've posted a question, and no-one bothers to answer it, when other threads around it have become very busy, so I like to think that I'll do my bit when I can to prevent some poor soul having to put up with that. However, if people post to say "go use a search engine", then that will bump up the post count for that thread in the same way as any other post. Result? Regulars see it as a busy thread, and they assume that the issue has already been dealt with, and so they don't bother to look, when in fact, it hasn't. If searching hasn't got anywhere, then frustrated newbie will start posting more new threads about the same subject to bump up the chances of actually getting a sensible answer.

You might say, but hey, this forum's not that busy yet. I guess it's still realistically possible for one person to keep track of everything that happens on it by themselves. To that, I'd say that it would be nice if it got busier in the future, but when it gets to the stage that hundreds of new threads are being created every day, then the things I describe here will become a serious problem unless the regulars take the right attitude to it.

Course, threads wandering off topic like this one has won't exactly help either, so I don't plan to make a habit of this. So, for all these reasons, I still believe that not posting at all is better than posting to say that someone should do some research or use a search engine.

Ive just been reading up about this myself as have just got some ketostiks for the first time.
I had been going by the 'funky skunky' breath method too
Hope this helps you out
In The X Factor page 136-137 it is written:

KETOGENIC KICKOFF

Within the first 48 hours on Ketogenics, your body should switch its metabolic functioning and begin using fat as fuel instead of sugar. As this happens, ketone bodies - the by products of fat breakdown from your cells - will be released into your bloodstream. They will then be eliminated from your body through your breath and your urine. Ketones are biochemical proof that you are consumimg your own stored fat. Ketosis suppresses your appetite - so much so that after the first 48 hours you will probably no longer think about food obsessively.

Measure It

Ketosis can be monitored by measuring the levels of ketones in your urine. This is a good indicator of the balance of carbohydrate and insulin in your body. To make sure that you are not eating too many carbohydrate-rich foods, it is important that you test your urine for ketones twice a day - before breakfast and agian before your evening meal.


'For successful ketogenic fat loss, your ketone levels must be maintained between trace and small (0.5-1.5mmol-l) You will be able to test these levels using urinary test strips which you can buy at any pharmacy. They are called ketosticks~.

Because the presence of ketones in the urine indicates that fat burning is taking place, you might be tempted to believe that the higher the level of ketones the more quickly your body is burning fat. This is not the case. Ketone levels above 'trace' and 'small' - in excess of 'moderate' (4-6mmol) - can stimulate insulin secretion. This in turn would lead to a reduction in fatty acid release from fat tissues and a consequent slowing of fat loss.
So it is essential that you maintain ketone levels at 'trace' or 'small'. If your ketone levels are greater than 4mmol, you may need to increase the number of low glycemic index carbohydrates you are eating slightly or reduce the amount of excersise you are doing. If you are not producing ketones, chances are that you eating too many carbohydrate foods or you may need to do more exercise.

If you do not appear to be in ketosis within the first three or four days, or if later on in your Ketogenics programme you go out of ketosis for 24 hours or more, check back to your diary and find out if there are any of the Ketogenics rules hat you may not be following. For instance, are you still drinking coffee? Caffine inhibits Ketogenics by causing the liver to release extra glucose into the bloodstream. Don't drink it.
If you continue not to show ketones in your urine you may need to add some insulin-sensitising nutrients which may be added as supplements to encourage fat burning: chromium, magnesium omega-3 fatty acids, lipoic acid and n-acetyl carnitine, for instance (see page 154-7).

In most people, the metabolic changeover from burning glucose to burning out two days, during which you may feel hungry. If you break your and have a starchy meal, it will take you another two to three days into ketosis. This is the only time when you are likely to be hungry on ketogenics.

Hmm. Well since I was the first one who said to try searching, And you said its "rude" to tell ppl to search...Yes I did take it personal because I don't think my post was rude. I admit my other comment was rude. I knew what she was talking about and what posts she was reffering too. I wasn't trying to start a "who has the rudest post fight" Nor flame anyone. I only said it because I found it rediculous that you "agreed" with her, yet found mine "rude" I mean that was too funny.



lol You also said "I know that it can be disheartening when you've posted a question, and no-one bothers to answer it, when other threads around it have become very busy" The main reason alot of threads don't get to many replies are because they're over asked questions that regs have seen a million times. Thats why there are stickylinks!

As for research, I don't see why anyone seriously interested in lowcarbing wouldn't want to do any research and find out all the tips and tricks they can. This site is full of them.


I agree. It's cool. I basically said everything I had to say on my part. We obviously disaree and this is turning into a pointless argument which is why I'm dropping it. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised if the mods deleted this.

Just to clarify something.

When we suggest members use the search engine, we mean the one on THIS site, not Google, Yahoo or something else.

Using the search engine on this site will pull up things ONLY on this site.

We have listed numerious sticky links on the newbie forums that cover just about everything a new member could possibly want to know, but I think instead of reading them people find it easier to ask their question. Which is fine, however when others take a very defensive posture challenging other members to NOT answer unless you are in the KNOW or an EXPERT basically puts people off.

We mods, mentors and admins do not get paid. We volunteer our time to assist all members on this forum. We work in different fields anywhere from computers to chef to nurse to environmental. We are just like you in many ways but offer our years of experience of Low Carbin in order to assist you.

You can always go here for a response however biased it may be in the long run. After all they do have sales to make:

The Atkin's Center