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  #1   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 10:48
RCFletcher's Avatar
RCFletcher RCFletcher is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,068
 
Plan: Food Combining
Stats: 220/175/154 Male 5feet5inches
BF:?/27.5%/19.6%
Progress: 68%
Location: Newcastle UK
Default Eating during the night?

For as long as I can remember I have had problems with eating at night. Not during my sleep, but waking up several times in the night and not being able to get back to sleep until I have eaten something. This was one of the reasons I got fat in the first place. I used to get through kilos of biscuits ( Am. cookies)

Now I still have the problem, the only difference is that I eat low carb things (because that's all there is in the house!)

This is obviously either an eating or a sleeping disorder, but when it's 3 in the morning and it's a choice between eat and go back to sleep or lie awake till 7 and feel ill all day through lack of sleep, I eat.

I can't imagine what it is like to sleep for 8 hours without waking up. Do people really do that?

One of my New Year's resolutions is to try and break this habit. Has anyone out there every gone through something similar and managed to stop it?

Any constructive advice would be appreciated.
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  #2   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 11:07
bigted's Avatar
bigted bigted is offline
Beach Bum
Posts: 1,189
 
Plan: da Beach looking for Sun
Stats: 250/229.5/163 Female 5ft 5in
BF:not/ahot/clue
Progress: 24%
Location: Winnipeg, Canada
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Hi Robert,

I find I do this too. It goes in fits and starts and like you I seem to have the choice of eat something and sleep or don't eat and not get back to sleep again.
I do have some other issues in that I have Rheumatoid Arthritis and I do get a lot of pain and that can keep me up (I am going through a bad patch at the moment) but there are times when pain has nothing to do with it. When I get the need to eat I do try and just drink water and if that fails then I have something legal like cheese or cold meat.
I guess because I rarely get a good nights sleep I will indulge the odd night of snacking since I know eating will let me sleep because if it's pain related I often don't get back to sleep. However there have been periods when I have felt it has become a habit and it does bother me.
Now if we as living organisms function better eating every few hours then doesn't it seem logical that some of us can't fast overnight and "feel the need" to eat while others can sleep? Not that I want to justify our problem but I am trying understand why it happens. I had a terrible time this summer when I came out of the hospital and decided I would treat my little problem the same way I dealt with all of my eating it would be counted in that days total with my day beginging in the morning. So it I eat over night I must have room for it in my program before I could eat it.
I wish I could give you an answer to help you stop as I know where you are coming from but for me I decided it was a quirk of being me and for those nights I wake up hungry I must have not eaten enough during the day. I figure with all my other issues it I could tame the insomnia monster with food then I would feed it. The pain monster isn't so easily squashed.
I hope my rambling helps, even if it only says you are not alone.

Steph
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  #3   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 11:15
neihu neihu is offline
New Member
Posts: 15
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 159/151/134 Female 62 inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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I always find it easier to fall asleep if I have food in my stomach. I rarely wake up in the middle of the night and eat, but I don't see the problem with it. If you are hungry, eat. Thats what this WOE is all about.
Stay off the biscuits and eat low carb snacks, and remember to count your carbs!
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  #4   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 12:47
Kagior Kagior is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 208
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 204/156/124 Female 5'1"
BF:BMI 38.5/30/23.4
Progress: 60%
Location: near Edmonton, Canada
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Have you tried having a good lc snack before bed? Something filling and fairly high in protein might do the trick. I am definitely an evening snacker most of the time because if I go to bed actually hungry because it was an early supper night, I just lay there not sleeping. For me, anything around 8 or 9 pm works since I don't usually hit the sack until midnight. For you, I would try eating within a half hour or so of bedtime and see if it makes a difference.
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  #5   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 13:09
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taming taming is offline
Still Wicked
Posts: 10,686
 
Plan: none currently (WFPB now)
Stats: 235/112/120 Female 151 cm (4.11 1/2)
BF:
Progress: 107%
Location: Alberta, Canada
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Have you investigated a possible sleep disorder? There may also be a medical reason you are waking during the night. I used to awaken frequently, but this does not happen as often now that my blood glucose has been stabilized.
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  #6   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 14:45
Tess M Tess M is offline
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Posts: 1,551
 
Plan: CALP to goal/now my plan
Stats: 188/160/155 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Georgia
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http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...5246886-4131109

Robert--I don't know if this will help you, but I just ordered/received a book from Amazon on this very subject--and I'm working my way through it right now. I read a post on this board a while ago, on "night eating syndrome"--and immediately knew that this was ME! Before my low carb ways, I would wake in the morning to find candy and treat wrappers on my bedside table, and would have no memory of having eaten them. The worst part was that I knew that I had gotten up to get the food, also with no recollection. Since low-carbing, things have improved for me greatly, but I still tend to avoid breakfast (ick!) or "save it for later", and then overeat (on low carb foods) at night. Classic symptom of NES. I just have no appetite early in the day, and eating is hard for me. Too bad it's not at ALL hard for me at night.. Anyway--check out the link, and see if this looks like something that might be helpful to you. I'd give you a review, but I'm still in the reading/thinking process regarding the book, and the advice. Hope that this might be at least a bit helpful...
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  #7   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 15:40
Monique--- Monique--- is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkinish
Stats: 175/175/150 Female 60 inches
BF:
Progress: 0%
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RC,

I can totally relate to what you are talking about. I have the same problem, I wake up multiple times in the night, at least one of those times I am stark ravingly madly hungry. I typically can remember eating unless, I sleep with something beside my bed. Whats the answer...I don't know, still working on that. I try to drink water before I go to bed, I'm debating on doing a shake and adding some fat to it before I go to bed.
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  #8   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 18:14
lettalove lettalove is offline
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Posts: 103
 
Plan: atkins
Stats: 168/168/140 Female 5.4
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Dear Robert, When I started reading your pos tI had to check to see if it was me posting, your words and the way you express them sounded just like me weird. I also eat at night. I have gone to theaphy, hipysosis, medication, doctors said I have compulsive excessive disorder. Well four years later on prozac I still eat at night. I beleive this is a behavior problem. I will say that I find that lc helps, I eat high fat snacks like cheese, olives, before I go to bed I still wake but not as much maybe 1 or 2 times a night compare to 3 to 4 much better. Please let me know what you have done through out your years of night eating and if lc has helped. I also gained weight with this bad problem. I just cant beleive your writing still to weird sounds like word to word how i would write about our problem. Good luck I also would love to sleep all night keep trying, keep dreaming.
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  #9   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 21:38
EmmaB's Avatar
EmmaB EmmaB is offline
Happy Loser!
Posts: 814
 
Plan: Atkins food, IF 20/4
Stats: 287/238/165 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Sydney, Australia
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EDIT: My best advice (not very clear in the full message below) is to talk to your doctor about going to a sleep clinic for an overnight evaluation. It's very easy. You just go there to sleep for one night while they monitor your breathing and brain function. They may be able to give you a simple, physical solution to improve your sleep.

-------------------
Robert, I know where your coming from with this one. I used to do the same thing. The only way I found to beat it is to improve the quality of my sleep. Meaning more exercise during the day so I am tired enough to go to bed, ensuring my sleeping place is comfortable, unlit and quiet and getting up in the morning instead of letting myself sleep in. Now I find if I start letting myself sleep in (uni holidays at the moment), the 3 am desperate need for a snack returns.

There are two (maybe three) seperate and important issues to be dealt with here.

1) The reason you are waking at night when you should be getting deep sleep.

This is either physiological or environmental. On the physiological side, do you snore or does your partner say that you sometimes stop breathing for a moment while you're asleep, then gasp a breath and then return to normal breathing? If so, it may be sleep apneas that are waking you.

A rather long story but it might be helpful: my mother slept poorly throughout my childhood, never really tired at bedtime and always needing an afternoon nap. When I was in my 20s she was finally diagnosed with sleep apnea and put on a CPAP machine. Her mild insomnia, lack of energy, afternoon naps and (although she still doesn't know that I know about this), night time fridge raids suddenly stopped. On a recent Xmas trip to stay with her I discovered she is no longer using the CPAP machine. Her doctor recommended she stop using the machine as she was no longer suffering from sleep apneas due to significant weight loss and could sleep through the night on her own. Unfortunately, due to other circumstances, she has now regained most of the weight. And now her snoring and her night eating has returned with a vengence.

It was heartbreaking to hear my mother return to the kitchen 5 or 6 times a night (the guest room is near the kitchen and the noisy fridge door woke me each time) to eat whatever she could find so that she might have a chance of going back to sleep. My first night there I cried for her, knowing how terrible she must feel, when physiology and psychology combine into a powerful eating disorder. I am, of course, not implying that your troubles are of anywhere near the same magnitude. I realise that my mother is suffering from other emotional issues that make this a full-blown eating disorder for her and not just a troublesome habit. But at the same time, I recognise in your description, in my own past behaviour and in her past behaviour, indicators of the same problem - the inability to achieve uninterrupted sleep.

I talked to her about going back to using the CPAP machine and hopefully she will go back to the sleep clinic to have her breathing assessed again.

On the environmental front, all I can suggest is ensuring darkness and quiet. I know that's not very helpful if you have a partner who snores, though.

2) The reason that eating something allows you to go back to sleep.

This could be psychological or physiological or most likely a combination of both. For me though, I think it was almost all psychological. I know I sincerely believed that something yummy to eat was the only thing that would let me go back to sleep. I tried to overcome this by having a drink, telling myself before I went to sleep that I would not get out of bed when I woke up, not go to the kitchen etc. None of these things worked I found that when I woke up, my body was telling me I needed to pee and my brain was telling me I needed something yummy to eat. The only thing that has resolved these issues for me is fixing my sleep pattern. Amazingly, I still drink the same amount of water (if not more) and yet I don't actually need to pee in the middle of the night.

The reasons for me were:

a) a desire to eat the foods we were was not allowed to eat (this goes way back to the "food is the enemy" attidues in my household throughout my childhood. Biscuits and soft drinks that we were not allowed to have because they were for my father, but if you ate them in the night no-one knew who did it so you could get away with it).

b) comfort and reassurance because being awake at 3 am is lonely and troubling and stressful when you know you need the sleep so you can get to work on time the next day

c) being able to blame whatever I ate on a strange lack of self-control brought on my being sleepy, rather than accepting that I was wide awake and doing it with full knowledge of the ramifications. I look back now and I realise I would occasionally make a mental note of something in the fridge or cupboard that I would be able to eat that night. That really frightens me now when I think back to it!

On the physiological point, I can't help wondering if maybe there is a blood sugar element to it. I know there is a phenomenon of a morning blood sugar spike for some people, I wonder if it is somehow related. Are our bodies giving us a misguided chemical trigger? More reasearch needed on this point.

I realise this is a long and probably rather confusing post. But I hope it gives you a few ideas and, more importantly, lets you know that there are lots of us who understand what it's like and that it can be overcome.

Em

P.S. Tess, please let us know how you find the book. If you recommend it, I will give it a read so I might have a chance of helping my Mum. I doubt she will go back to using the CPAP machine on her own while her emotional need to binge at night has such a powerful grip on her

Last edited by EmmaB : Sun, Jan-09-05 at 21:49.
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  #10   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 22:54
josiekat's Avatar
josiekat josiekat is offline
Recovering Yo-Yo
Posts: 2,792
 
Plan: What's best for me
Stats: 291.6/147/164 Female 5'8"
BF:A work in progress
Progress: 113%
Location: Vancouver BC
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Hi Robert,

Earlier today I was reading the original version of Dr. Atkins Diet Revolution and then just came upon your post in which the same question about night eating was posed in the "Answers To The Questions Patients Most Often Ask" section of the book. It read as follows:

"Q. - I wake up from a sound sleep and can't get back to sleep until I eat
something; that's psychological, isn't it?

A. - Wrong. Nothing could be more physical. There is a 99 percent
probability that it is nocturnal low blood sugar that wakes you up
and sends you to the kitchen. Don't even hesitate, just arrange
for your glucose tolerance test next week."

As mentioned above this is from his 1972 Diet Revolution book so not sure if there was an update to this somewhere down the line, but I couldn't see it in my most current 1991 New Diet Revolution.

Anywho....I see there's lots of others out there who are in your shoes & have offered up suggestions.....so just thought I'd toss this into the mix.

Here's hoping you get a good "right through the night" sleep soon.

Jo

Last edited by josiekat : Sun, Jan-09-05 at 23:00.
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  #11   ^
Old Sun, Jan-09-05, 23:35
EmmaB's Avatar
EmmaB EmmaB is offline
Happy Loser!
Posts: 814
 
Plan: Atkins food, IF 20/4
Stats: 287/238/165 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Wow, Josie, thanks very much for posting that! I don't remember seeing anything about that in my 1992 DANDR. I'd love to hear more about the blood sugar connection here!

Em
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  #12   ^
Old Mon, Jan-10-05, 05:01
Tess M Tess M is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,551
 
Plan: CALP to goal/now my plan
Stats: 188/160/155 Female 65"
BF:
Progress: 85%
Location: Georgia
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Well, I think I could have saved a couple of bucks on the book. If you will go to the Atkins website and do a search on "night eating syndrome" you get 10 pages of links to articles on this very subject. I can see that I will need to do some internet research, but don't know if I'll ever really understand this thing. What I've gathered from the book (Overcoming Night Eating Syndrome) so far is that NES is actually a form of an eating disorder (although I don't think it has been officially classified as such), which can be hereditary or more often stress related. There is a quiz included in the book that helps us determine if we have this condition. Another condition is (I believe) called NS-RED, and this is more of a sleep disorder, characterized by sleepwalking to the kitchen at night, eating non-food items (such as buttered cigarettes or frozen or spoiled food), and having no recollection of it the next day. For me at least, I believe that I have NES and that it's probably stress related. I know just about when this all started, and it really was during a particularly stressful period. There is another part of me though, that really feels that this is a physical reaction, and blood sugar related. Usually, within an hour of going to sleep, I will wake up with a terrible weakness and craving--so weak in fact that I can barely make it to the kitchen to get something. If I'm aware enough, I can have a sip of diet cola, and will recover quickly. I've even experienced dropping the food (due to the weakness in my hands), and a couple of times I've fainted (I will say though, that I'm an "easy fainter", and have been for years). This also happens almost every single time that I doze off during the daytime. So--I guess my conclusion is that this is a complicated problem, I have lots of research to do, and that if I try to talk to my doctor about it, he's going to think I'm completely insane..

Last edited by Tess M : Mon, Jan-10-05 at 05:09.
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  #13   ^
Old Mon, Jan-10-05, 05:44
jadefox26's Avatar
jadefox26 jadefox26 is offline
Staying Put
Posts: 6,174
 
Plan: Atkins/CarbCycling
Stats: 299/252/180 Female 69"
BF:
Progress: 39%
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Hiya, I don't wake up starving in the night, but i do often fall asleep in the daytime and then wake up ravenous! I can also eat a horse when I am first up in the morning, I find if I don't eat breakfast I'm like a bear with a sore head all day.
I do think it is linked with blood sugar levels and you should almost certainly get it checked out. I think if you're waking in the night to go eat, you need your bloods looked at.
Emma
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  #14   ^
Old Mon, Jan-10-05, 06:06
EmmaB's Avatar
EmmaB EmmaB is offline
Happy Loser!
Posts: 814
 
Plan: Atkins food, IF 20/4
Stats: 287/238/165 Female 5'7"
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Robert, I assume you've seen this thread on NES posted by Doreen a while back, but some others may not have so I thought I'd include a link to it here. It's interesting reading!

Emma
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  #15   ^
Old Mon, Jan-10-05, 08:10
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josiekat josiekat is offline
Recovering Yo-Yo
Posts: 2,792
 
Plan: What's best for me
Stats: 291.6/147/164 Female 5'8"
BF:A work in progress
Progress: 113%
Location: Vancouver BC
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You're welcome Em! The book has a great Q & A section that I wish would have been carried on to the most recent printings.

Wishing you all the best.
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