That is not true. Dr. Atkins has never said that carbohydrates are essential in the diet for anyone. Dr. Atkins himself ran marathons on low-carb. The Atkins website has personal testimonies from marathon runners reporting great success on low-carb.

James Fixx, author of the book Complete Book of Running stated in the book that his study of college alumni showed the athletes had a shorter life span than the couch potatoes.

Dr. Michael Eades on his website suggests athletes eat low-carb for lifestyle and training to prevent insulin resistance and eat some carbs for competition. Carb loading may give a slight edge in short races but marathon runners are forced to burning fat in the middle of the race. The switch over is called "hitting the wall" because their body is not used to burning fat normally.

The Metabolic Typing Diet theory claims that everyone testing "carb type" should eat a high level of carbohydrates for optimal health. That theory is flat wrong.

Carbohydrates cause nearly all age-related diseases. Age-related diseases are thought of as unavoidable. Many people consider it normal to get one or more of these diseases as they age. They rationalize that they are simply unlucky or that others have "better genes," neither of which is true. Their health problems are most likely caused by their belief in the many popular myths and distortions about nutrition. Most likely they got hooked by the low-fat, high-carbohydrate diet craze and are now suffering as a result. The most common excuse used instead of identifying the real culprit, carbohydrates, is heredity. People flippantly say, "It runs in my family." or "My mother also had diabetes." or "My father also had high blood pressure and heart disease." Age-related diseases could best be described as "Excessive Carbohydrate Consumption Syndrome."

Top Ten Nutritional Myths, Distortions and Lies That Will Destroy Your Heath.

Kent

Zuleikaa...I don't recall ever reading where Dr. Atkins suggested that athletes should not follow a carb controlled lifestyle. Perhaps induction levels aren't appropriate when you are an elite athlete, but even reading back through Atkins for Life, Dr. Atkins suggested that generally maintainence levels of carb would be between 60 and 100 grams of carb per day for most folks, even with regular exercise which he highly recommended.
Come to think of it, Didn't an English rugby team train and compete on a controlled carb regimen and take first place this past year?

Quote from Atkins For Life, page 70:
"Some lucky-or more likely-young, active (and usually male) people can go as high as 150 or even a bit higher. On the other hand, if you have a history of obesity and yo-you dieting, it is unlikely that you will ever be able to get your ACE much above 60. Remember, the more you exercise, the higher your ACE, so if you are determined to get it up a notch or two, get moving! Literally."

Even 150 grams of carb per day is nowhere near the carb loading amount that many athletic "experts" recommend and that carb loading usually consists of simple, high glycemic carbs such as sugar, white rice or pasta.

Kent...I don't recall ever reading where Dr. Atkins ran marathons, but a colleague of his, Dr. Stuart Trager, did and did quite well while maintaining a controlled carb approach. IIRC, his daily carb intake was somewhere in the rage of 60-90 grams of carb, even while training and racing in a triathalon.

BTW, as to the cultures who use rice as a staple, the rice was not white rice until recently. It would have been brown rice with high-fiber layer intact. Also, traditional rice farming provides habitat for all sorts of aquatic protein life such as small fish, crabs, crayfish etc. When the rice paddies are modified to accomodate tractor-based farming, rice yeilds go way up but the protein content of the diet goes DOWN. It's not a particularly good trade-off for the people concerned. (Sorry Peace Corps. ) Reliance on rice for the bulk of the diet is likely a fairly recent development similar to the agrarian reliance on grains. Also, while the plates in Asian restaurants may not contain many vegetables, they are adapted to suit Wester tastes. The vegetable content is quite a bit higher when the food is served in the country of origin.

Cheers,

Friday

I usually refrain from entering online debates such as these, however when I read the following excerpt in an e-mail from Dr. Mercola that I received in my inbox this morning, I felt compelled to comment.



In Post #48 of this thread, Kent cited the fact of publication of his article
"Scientific Proof Carbohydrates Cause Disease" in Dr. Mercola's newsletter. If Kent meant to imply this as proof of Dr. Mercola's support for his position, this was very disingenuous. At the bottom of Kent's article, there was the following note:



My purpose is not to promote Dr. Mercola. However, I respect and admire his work and I felt his position was misrepresented in Kent's argument. Dr. Mercola has developed a program which is founded upon the concept of metabolic typing. I find it very strange Kent would reference Dr. Mercola in support of his stance against metabolic typing. In publishing Kent's article, Dr. Mercola has displayed a far more open-minded view than Kent.

The originator of this thread was looking for commentary upon the Wolcott/ Fahey book The Metabolic Typing Diet. It's been almost two years since I read this book but from what I recall, the book left me feeling very encouraged and re-affirmed in choosing a low-carb diet. I tried to be very objective when doing the test and found it to be a valuable exercise in self-discovery. Of course I tested very high as a Protein type.

Contrary to what Kent has repeatedly stated, metabolic typing is NOT about giving you license to eat the high-carb foods you like. Otherwise, I'd be living on a diet of Krispy Kreme donuts and hot fudge sundaes. It's about discovering the type of foods that your body will thrive upon.

We can all agree it's not a good idea to put gasoline in a diesel engine and vice versa. So what is so difficult about accepting the idea of biochemical differences in the individual human body, a far more incredibly complex machine?

As with most things, in science there is a lag time between what is considered avant garde and what is accepted as mainstream. The scientific establishment used to dismiss Dr. Atkins as a quack. Now that there is a body of proven scientific evidence to back him up, low-carb is becoming mainstream.

I believe that as new discoveries are made in genetics and new fields such as psychoimmunoneurology, there will be scientific proof found to support the theory of metabolic typing. It's only a matter of time.

Dinosaurs on either end of the spectrum who persist in black and white, one-size-fits-all-thinking will be left in the dust.

JMHO

Thank you Kaeleen.

And Lisa, I stand corrected. Dr. Atkins said induction levels of carbs, not lc and certainly not maintainence levels of carbs, weren't good for professional level athletes.

The World Health Organization (WHO) didn't come out against carbs. They came out against processed foods and sugar.

While attending WHO's conference in May last year I had the pleasure of sitting in on one of their committees on the health issue. The recommendation was that peoples of the world eschew the "modern" diet and get back to their traditional roots. There were physicians, nutritionists and historians who investigated what that meant. One of the reasons that the "modern" diet and sugar raised such antipathy was that while some "native" diets were quite high in unrefined carbs such as brown rice, beans, grains (more native and older species), and fruits their "modern" diet was not and was, in fact, very scarce in fruit and unrefined foods.

Factors they found impacting obesity rates:
1. A move from a primitive to a modern diet.
2. A move from a more rural to an urban environment.
3. Resulting limited access to traditional diet staples.
4. Poverty further limiting access to good nutritional elements.
5. Poverty causing reliance on cheaper, refined and high carb foods away from more expensive, nutrient dence elements.
6. The lower cost of nutrient lacking diet components compared to nutrient dense components.
7. A rise in economical standards providing access to more Western and more refined diet.
8. A rise in economical standards allowing the consumption of traditional and occassionally consumed "festival/celebration" foods to be consumed on a more frequent and sometimes daily basis.
9. A rise in economical standards allowing the consumption of more food.
10. A rise in economic standards tarnishing the importance and standing of traditional "poorer" foods when compared to a more "modern", i.e. Western diet.


These factors they found most incidious.
1. A perception that obesity/plumpness signals wealth and good health.
2. Supplanting of traditional agriculture, diet and food markets with the globilization of modern agribusiness, techniques, crops, food products and industrialized culture.

Kaeleen,

I found it strange that Dr. Mercola would published my article Absolute Scientific Proof Carbohydrates are Pathogenic (disease causing) while promoting the SALE of the Metabolic Typing Diet book. Dr. Mercola’s own book, “The No-Grain Diet,” appears to conflict with the Metabolic Typing Diet, in my opinion. I don’t understand how a person can eat a high-carb diet of vegetables while avoiding all sugars and grains as Dr. Mercola suggests. Eat a lot of potatoes, I guess. He doesn’t give much detail to support his comment.

Dr. Mercola took the liberty to change the title of my article, and to delete the last sentence without my permission. My copyright states that the article must be shown in full without changes. I can’t figure why he ran my article in the first place if he didn’t agree. His position is confusing. He promotes the Metabolic Typing Diet and a high-carb diet for some people while at the same time runs my article stating that carbohydrates cause disease. I don’t know where he stands.

I stated that he ran the article, and he did. I don’t see the misrepresentation. I have many links back to Dr. Mercola’s web site even though I don’t agree with many of the things he promotes. People simply are not in 100% agreement with each other. Even the different authors of the metabolic typing theory are in disagreement as stated earlier in this thread.

I got many very supportive responses from his eHealthy newsletters, except one vegetarian that went ballistic. LOL They must hate my web site as much as they hated Dr. Atkins.

I think the science is solid against carbohydrates, and the diets which promote carbohydrates are simply wrong.



I assume your “dinosaur” comment was meant for me as a personal insult? Is that right Kaeleen? Or do you meant we should not eat a low-carb diet because that is a black or white approach?

Kent

The Metabolic Typing Diet suggest that people who eat a high-carb diet and remain thin are the fast burning carb type. This is not true. These people could have an intestinal disease which is caused by carbohydrates.

Many people with intestinal disease are bone thin and suffering from malnutrition even though they eat a lot of calories. The Metabolic Typing Diet suggest that these people eat a high-carb diet, but that is just the diet that made them sick. The low-carb diet heals these individuals while no other diet works.

Whole grains cause disease in both humans and animals. Whole grain breads and bagels are not the healthy food as people are lead to believe. All grains have a very high level of Omega-6 fatty acids which are pro-inflammatory. Grains are a poor source of protein. Grains are the most allergenic of all foods. Multiple sclerosis, lupus and rheumatoid arthritis are rare in populations where no grain products are consumed.

Kent

Actually there are some grains with a higher protein component. Most of these are so called "ancient" grains that have been around for centuries. Quinoa comes to mind.

I don't see that Dr. Mercola was inconsistent in publishing your article while advocating Metabolic Typing. A High carb diet will cause disease in a person not meant to eat a high proportion of carbs. And a diet comprised of a large proportion of highly refined carbs will make anyone sick eventually. Metabolic Typing doesn't advocate a diet high in refined carbs for anyone, not even the carb type person.

The quote above is the heart of The Metabolic Diet, but it can easily be proven to be a false theory.

People react differently in their consumption of carbohydrates because of damage to their metabolism, not because the physiology of people is differently as claimed. Dr. Atkins describes the many diseases that effect metabolism. These diseases are primarily cause by the amount of carbohydrate previously eaten. The Metabolic Typing only shows which people suffer from a metabolism disease.

The Metabolic Typing Diet theory is proven false by the ancient Egyptian mummies. If the theory were true the "carb type" mummies of older people would be found without the diseases found in the "protein types." They are not found. All of the mummies are found to have badly decayed teeth, arthritis, osteoporosis, etc. The high-carb diets have been shown in many ancient societies to produce bad health in everyone in the society. The low-carb diet has been shown in ancient societies to produce health is all of the population. There are no "carb types" that thrive well on high carbohydrates, and all of these societies ate whole grains without sugar and white flour.

A study of ancient societies who lived on a high-fiber, high-carbohydrate diet easily proves the unhealthy effects. Ancient Egyptians are a perfect example. Their diet was based on a high percentage of whole grains, fruit and vegetables. The fiber content was very high. The diet was low-fat. They did not eat refined sugars. These Egyptians of the times of the Pharaohs ate a highly vegetarian diet. The results were disastrous. Their writings and the study of mummies shows they had a high incidence of diabetes, heart disease, intestinal diseases, arthritis, osteoporosis and poor dental health. Their high-fiber diet which had no refined carbohydrates did not produce the good health as promised by all of our modern dietary references and professional medical and nutritional associations. The tens of thousands of well-preserved Egyptian mummies give us the absolutely solid scientific proof the high-fiber, high-carbohydrate diet is very unhealthy.

The Eskimos are another example. They ate the low-carb diet and NONE suffered from dental decay, arthritis, osteoporosis, cancer or heart disease. The health is in the diet, not in some body type theory.

Stefansson 1 - Eskimos Prove An All Meat Diet Provides Excellent Health.

Kent

So. The Egyptians that were mummified were the extremely wealthy and well to do. Even if you include the middleclass as those who were mummified, that population is well able to have access to an abundance of foodstuffs. And the cultural norm as today among non Westernized people is that wealth equates with abundance including an abundance of flesh. These mummies were not of people who were thin, as you've concurred. Thus I can theorize that these mummified people were overeaters of the abundance of foodstuffs available and in fact were still fed during any times of scarcity. In addition, though you state that sugar was not available, honey was. Honeyed foods and sweetmeats were often eaten by the Egyptians as evidenced by the dental carries found. Also Egypt was the center of trade and a conquering nation so we can assume that foods not necessary native or accessible to the general population were also available. This includes other sweets, fruits and dairy products. The wealthy also tended to eat a richer diet on a more frequent basis. So what do we have. We have overeaters of rich foods, carbohydrates and sweetened foods. Sound familiar? And it's been proven that overeating carbs and sweetened foods (junk) replaces better, more nutrient dense options. Of course this led to diseases caused by overeating of carbohydrates. Even carb types can get these diseases if they overdo or eat the wrong carbs. And they have found some thin mummies. What does that prove? Maybe those mummies were better adapted to a higher carb diet? So the fact that they found fat mummies might mean that they were not suited to a high carb diet (it does take a while for physiological adaptation to take place in humans and Egyptians were early adapters of grains), it might also simply mean that they were overeaters and abusers of carbs.

I give you the Eskimos. I'll even add the Maisi. Obviously they are protein types. But there have been Eskimos that have not thrived on the typical diet. Perhaps they don’t fit the profile?

Now I’ll pick some populations. Remember I am talking pre Westernization.

The Polynesians and the Maoris of New Zealand. Though they eat a diet high in protein from fish. They also eat a diet high in carbohydrates. Their carbohydrates are from high starch tubers, vegetables and fruits. Their diets are also high in fats. Further the Polynesians are large, you could say obese people. The Maoris are not small people either. Yet they have no heart diseases and carb-related diseases. The Polynesians, especially, don’t have any diseases of the obese. Sounds like they aren’t protein types.

Malaysians and Vietnamese. High unrefined rice and noodles, tons of fruits, veggies and seafood, relatively little meat with some access to sweets and syrups. They don’t eat high protein. No carb related illnesses. I could add a lot of other Southeast Asians and Asians to my argument.

Finally I will point to the Sikhs of India and Pakistan. They are vegetarian and eat no meat. They are a tall, slender and athletically built people. They also have no carb related illnesses and obesity is rare and almost unheard of. Of course they do eat a very varied vegetarian diet including unrefined carbs, sweets and honey but their precepts are to revere food and not be gluttonous.

We could pick and choose among the world populations and all you’d prove is my point. Peoples are metabolically diverse and the basis for the Metabolic Typing Diet is sound.

Kent wrote:


Given your vehement opposition to metabolic typing, what puzzles me is why you gave him permission to run your article in the first place. One would think you wouldn't want your name associated with such a strong advocate of metabolic typing as Dr. Mercola. Unless of course, reaching his 25,000 subscribers was far too tempting an opportunity to pass up.



Clearly a case of kettles and shoes, my good man!



You may see low-carb eating as a black or white approach. Others do not, including the creators of this forum. Excerpted from the Forum Rules:



You are advocating a strict Atkins induction level regime for all people, all the time. This obviously has worked wonderfully well for you but not everyone finds this a do-able approach. Many people thrive upon Sommersizing, The Zone, Montignac, CAD or Schwarzbein Principle, all which allow higher levels of carbs than you advocate and yet all are considered acceptable low-carb plans by the creators of this forum.

Metabolic Typing can be used as a tool to help individuals discover which plan will work best for them. This is what I took away from the book. You obviously found something very different in it.

Kaeleen,

You are correct. Congratulation! At least you have gotten one thing right so far.

There is one major difference between my web site others. I have nothing to sell. No prejudice. No rigid positions. No manufacturers giving me click-thru kick-backs.

I will change my web site in a split second if anything is proven to be wrong.

I don't agree with Dr. Atkins on one point - fiber. He does seem to have been drifting away from the high-fiber claims in recent years. His earlier books gave strong support to fiber in the diet, but his web site has some hesitation about the claim being made by the Food Pyramid Guide promoters.

Kent

Sure one can. All one has to do is accept the basis of Metabolic Typing. LC is perfect for different levels of protein types, mixed types and even some carb types. Further lc can correct carb types who are unbalanced. And at the upper limits, might be appropriate/adaptable for carb types. I see no illogic. Remember, we are not talking refined crap although carb types can tolerate some, we are talking complex which doesn't have to include a lot of wheat/corn...they aren't the only types of grains you know.

Zuleikaa says:



I didn't say anything against specific grains like wheat/corn ---- you know.
All grains are bad. I agree with Dr. Mercola on that point completely.

Your statements about several societies around the world is so packed with errors there are to many to comment about. Your statements about the mummies are wrong. You statements about vegetarians is completely wrong.

As an example: "The vegetarians of Southern India eat a low-calorie diet very high in carbohydrates and low in protein and fat. They have the shortest life span of any society on Earth, and their bodies have an extremely low muscle mass. They are weak and frail and the children clearly exhibit a failure to thrive. Their heart disease rate is double that of the meat eaters in Northern India." HL Abrams. Vegetarianism: An anthropological/nutritional evaluation. Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980, 32:2:53-87.

Kent