Hi - Newcomer here and new to low carb. I see recipes with the annontation "carbs after fiber". What does this mean, do you subtract fiber grams from Carbs? thanks

It depends what plan you're on. Protein Power subtracts carbs, Atkins doesn't. Some of us are doing a sort of 'hybrid' PP and Atkins, in which we basically follow Atkins, but subtract fibre (the plans are very similar). If you're just starting out, though, I'd strongly suggest doing Atkins to the letter, and NOT subtracting fibre until you're more of an 'old hand.' Otherwise, it may get confusing.

Rachel

I was just recently corrected on this by Atriana. It does say - I think in the maintenance chapter - that it is OK to subtract fiber from carbs. It is, I believe the only time it is mentioned in the book.

Curiously, Dr. A. is referring to Wasa crackers when he says this...

Karen

I had heard on another site that Dr. A was now verbally supporting the subtracting of fiber - I don't know if it's written anywhere (they'll probably be a new edition of DANDR coming out if it's true).

I remember thinking when I heard this that it sounds like all the low carb WOE's are starting to come together at some kind of centre line where there are less and less distinctions between them.

OK this is interesting - I just went to Dr A's site (it's changed - haven't been there ina while) and there is a Q&A on the fiber deduction question.

He answers the question stating that some fiber is undigestable by the body, etc etc. and then goes into detail about the subtraction of those fiber counts to a net carb count - but only in the context of Atkins manufactured low carb products!!! He even gives sample labels of one of his product lables and how he reports the net carbs.

Found the quote about fiber. It's on page 285, PB edition DANDR.



What did you think about the new concept? Net Atkins Carbs and Atkins Nutritional Approach?

Karen

Well to be honest, I wonder why the reference to fiber deduction, is in such a limited fashion in the book. (Thanks for finding the page Karen, I never even knew it was there).

If Dr. A is OK with deducting fiber from carbs to net out the *bad* carbs then why not across the board? Why just with hard crackers?

I must admit (I hope I don't sound traitorish) but the amount of detail in fiber deducting from an Atkins low carb bar in that Q&A on Dr. A's website really started visions of outrageous commercialization (no longer disguised as sugar plums) going through my head.

I'm far more interested in fiber deduction from veggies.... surely the fiber in romain lettuce is as non-digestable as the chemicals in a commerical low carb bar (?).

Although the Eades (Protein Power) were the first to introduce the notion of subtracting non-caloric fiber-carbs to the Low-Carbing public ..... and now it seems as though Atkins is hopping on the bandwagon ...... NEITHER of these two groups can lay claim to anything special.

The fact is ... subtracting calorically insignificant fiber grams is in the process of being legislated by governments and FDA's internationally ... as part of a GLOBAL move toward more accurate food labelling. Many manufacturers have already started pre-subtracting fiber before calculating the calories in a product, especially if there are 4 or more grams of fiber per serving. Since it's not LAW yet, though, not everyone is doing it ... so you still have to do the math. Otherwise, if you subtract the fiber AGAIN, you will end up thinking the food has less (fewer??) carbs than it does ... and unwittingly go way over your daily carb allowance. Personally, I think this is a wise and sensible move ... since we will be able to look at a label and with one glance, see the carbs listed and know for sure that's how many we count for the foood, and not have to worry about subtracting fiber, it's already been done. Hopefully, this should become law in 2002 ... and then everyone will be doing it consistently.

The sugar alcohols are carbs, but under hot, hot HOT debate. The manufacturers who use them want to de-emphasize their carbiness for obvious marketing reasons. Consumer groups, and in particular International Diabetes Organizations are pressing for full disclosure and inclusion in the carb counts. This is not law yet either, but I notice some manufacturers are complying with this voluntarily ... Atkins has started disclosing the polyols in the bars as part of the carb counts (they used to not declare at all, only listing the glycerin and polydextrose as ingredients)

Yes, it's very confusing. But just another reason to eat real whole foods ... at least you can be sure what's in it.

Doreen

I didn't know it was there until someone pointed it out to me. I usually skim over parts that mention crackers.

Actually I'm just flipping through it right now and revisiting the FAQ. The amount of information in DANDR continually amazes me.

Karen

Doreen - what you report is VERY good news. I would love to see some standardization in food content reporting. It would be so much more reassuring to know that this type of information is mandated and controlled so we could know to trust it and have it be of such value as to be useful. I have better things to do with my life than run around Loblaws with a calculator

Karen - I'm overdue for a re-browse of DANDR, I guess I better get on it. I see something *new* everytime I take the time.

I know that Atkins labels his products with both carbs and net carbs. Net carbs are those after fiber is subtracted.

WW has done this also. I was on WW123 and they subtracted fiber and I believe on the new plan they do also for the point value. However, I think it was hotly debated in WW as to whether or not you really "should" deduct the fiber and I think there is some difference between 123 and Winning Points in how it's calculated.

Thanks to all of you, I think for a while I'll take the advise and not get too confused. (Well, I'm already confused, but that's another story. Question 2, I'm on Atkins and doing very well (7lbs 1 week), can someone tell me the basic differences between it and Protein Power without me going out and buying yet another book. Thanks much.

You might very well be able to borrow either or both Protein Power (pub. 1995) and Protein Power Lifeplan (pub 2000) from your local library. Excellent reading, and they go into a little more research information and background than Atkins, which is really helpful for understanding the sound science behind low-carbing.

PP is a bit higher in carbs at the beginning - 30g of Effective Carbs (ECC) - which is carbs after subtracting fiber - however, you continue at this level until you are near goal weight, then you move up to Phase 2, which is 50g ECC ... and then on to Maintence level ... can't remember the exact level of carbs for that, as I'm nowhere NEAR maintenance.

PP also requires that you consume a minimum amount of protein every day, based on your lean body mass (there's a calculator for you to figure that out) and activity level. Then, you must divide the daily amount equally between the 3 meals each day, or meals plus snacks if you choose. You may of course have more protein than the minimum. You are also required to distribute your daily CARB allotment equally between meals and snacks as well, rather than consuming the majority of the carbs at one meal.

Doreen