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  #1   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 12:31
Dodger's Avatar
Dodger Dodger is offline
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
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Default Clothing sizes aren't what they used to be

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0...2015788,00.html
Clothing sizes aren't what they used to be
By Kristina Chapuran
9News

The trim size 10 you may pride yourself on today would have seemed like a bigger size 50 years ago. As women have grown larger over the generations, clothing makers have quietly expanded size standards, keeping egos intact.

"Vanity sizing" is what the trend is called. Expect it to continue as Americans grow both taller and rounder.

"I think that they're going to keep putting smaller labels in larger clothing," says Laura Simmons, who owns Extraordinaire Fine Clothing Design in Boulder. In her 30 years in the clothing industry, she's seen size definitions steadily expand, while armholes drop and rear ends widen.

"It's a little mercenary," says Eulanda Sanders, associate professor of design and merchandising at Colorado State University.

"I'm going to be much happier if I go into a store and fit into a size 10 rather than a size 12 ... which probably isn't helping us all in the end have a realistic sense of what our body's like," Sanders says.

Both agree that high-end manufacturers are working the vanity differential even harder.

"If you go to Kmart, I might even wear a 9," says Simmons. "If you go to Saks, I wear a 2 or 4."

"I'm going to be much happier to spend a thousand dollars on a suit if it's a size 8. If it's a size 12 I might be a little depressed," says Sanders.

Individual clothing manufacturers are using their own size charts, pegged to the shape and size of their target market. This leads to confusion in the dressing room. Women can struggle for half an hour, wondering why one pair of jeans is too big and the next size down is too small.

This was not the goal half a century ago when the United States first created clothing size standards.

As women began buying more ready-to-wear clothes, mass production warranted the creation of a standard size chart. The National Bureau of Standards (now called the National Institute of Standards and Technology) measured 15,000 American women during 1939 and 1940. The Mail- Order Association of America joined the cause in the 1940s and an additional 6,500 women were measured during World War II.

In 1958, the research was completed and adopted by the apparel industry. And it worked for consumers at the time. But American women in 2004 are wearing clothes that too often are designed for the proportions of our mothers or grandmothers. While the average woman's figure once resembled an hourglass, today it is more likely to resemble a pear. Americans are growing taller and heavier, with thicker waistlines and fuller hips.

And size charts began expanding to keep up. Consider the slippage in size 10:

In 1966, the measurements, in inches, were 31-24-33. In 1972, they were 32.5/25/34.5. Today, they're 36.5-28-38.5.

No wonder Simmons, who enviably has managed to stay the same size and shape as she was in high school 27 years ago, actually seems to be vanishing, according to her clothing size. Then she wore a size 10. Today she's somewhere between a 4 and 6. Except for that vanity sizing.

"I just bought a pair of pants that's a size 2," she says. "And there's no way I'm a size 2.

Although vanity sizing may make us feel better about the jeans we're slipping into, there are hidden costs involved for manufacturers. Especially as e-commerce becomes more popular, businesses will have to accommodate more clothing returns due to poor fit and customer dissatisfaction.

In response, an industry research project called SizeUSA measured 10,500 people across the country. They used 3-D technology to gauge 200 individual measurements. The project's goal is to close the gap between clothing proportions and the statistical population
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 12:35
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AFwife AFwife is offline
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Default

This was interesting.

I however, don't care what size I wear. I'd like to be a 6 but as long as I'm healthy and feel great and now I look good then if it's more like an 8 cause clothing has changed then so what.


Lily
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  #3   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 13:39
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bvtaylor bvtaylor is offline
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Default What's in a size?

One of the interesting changes in fashion definitely has to do with sizing.

Have you ever compared a "pattern" dress size to a ready-to-wear clothing size? Add two or more dress sizes to the ready-to-wear size.

Patterns generally go by strict body measurements.

I have a pattern from 1984.

Here are the body measurements listed on the back:

...............................Size 8........Size 10.......Size 12......Size 14
Bust.........................31 1/2".......32 1/2".......34"............36"
Waist........................24"............25"............26 1/2".......28"
Hip...(9" below waist)...33 1/2"......34 1/2 "......36"............38"

When I was 14 and 112 lbs, my measurements were 36, 26, 36, which put me in a pattern dress size 12-14. I always thought that people advertising weight loss products where they lost 30 lbs when they felt so terribly fat at a size 14 was an absolutely insane notion and struggled at the idea that there were people who really wore a size zero.... I wondered what real person could possibly wear a zero? An infant? (waist size - 6 = 23"; 4 = 22"; 2 = 21"; 0 = 20")? Maybe with a corset!

Today at 156 lbs, with measurements of 38, 30, 38, I bought a pair of shorts off the rack that were size 10.

My aunt in North Carolina sent me a sweater for Christmas in a perfet fit that was a size "Small". When I shop at Wal-mart, I usually buy tops that are M (8-10).

It's not just a small disparity, but a HUGE disparity in sizing for women.

While travelling through Kentucky last summer, I was really astonished at the number of people who were seriously overweight. Struggling with obesity myself my whole life, for the first time not only did I blend in, but I actually felt THIN--it's all relative, folks (But of course there is some traditional fare in the South that is positively dangerous in large amounts.... grits, biscuits, biscuits and gravy, hash browns... the overwhelming load of high simple carbs and high fat I am sure is one of the contributing factors to our national trend).
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  #4   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 14:07
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Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
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Default

I notice this phenomenon in my closet right now! I have quite a few pairs of jeans I all bought from the same place. Exact same style and everything. However, the size 16's I'm buying now are much, much larger than the ones I bought 2 years ago.

At first I though, well, maybe those old ones are stretched out 14's, so I checked the label. Nope, they're 16s too.

I hate it because the old 16's fit me really nicely now, the new ones are WAY too big and are like a bucket around my waist. Yet, I think I'm too large for 14s still.
Grr!
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  #5   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 19:45
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CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Default

My mom noticed this many years ago! LOL

All her adult life she wore a 16....very thin, but 5'8" and large framed. When she hit her 50s she was first put on appetite stimulants (which she desperately needed) and then a few years later a LF diet. She gained a lot of weight. She went from an emaciated 115 to a "heavy" 180 in about 5 yrs, but continued to buy clothes in 14-16 sizes!
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  #6   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 20:51
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MyJourney MyJourney is offline
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Default

I noticed this a couple of years ago at around halloween time. Ive never used patterns before but I found one that was so stunning I had to try and make it. It was really old and when I looked at the sizes in the back and the measurements my jaw dropped. I was, at the time a 6/8 sometimes a 4 and this thing put me at a 14. It almost made me not want to wear it I got so depressed.
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  #7   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 22:06
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Mossling Mossling is offline
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Default

My Journey:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyJourney
I noticed this a couple of years ago at around halloween time. Ive never used patterns before but I found one that was so stunning I had to try and make it. It was really old and when I looked at the sizes in the back and the measurements my jaw dropped. I was, at the time a 6/8 sometimes a 4 and this thing put me at a 14. It almost made me not want to wear it I got so depressed.


That's exactly why the size creep in the first place. We had a model visiting our school a few weeks ago (long story!), and she left her bio/stats. At 5'8, about 120#, and 36-24-36, she's something like a size 4-6. No way, Jose! At least, not when I was those measurements! I was a 14/16 (and looked pretty darned good, too). NOW 14 is the beginning of Women's sizes; everyone wants to be a size 4, 6, or 8 at the most, and the clothing manufacturer's are going with the flow.

Jude
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Mar-15-04, 23:04
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CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Default

Well ladies, I read somewhere that Marilyn Monroe, in her day a 14, would not be an 8 or 10!

Times haves changed.
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Mar-16-04, 08:55
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DanG DanG is offline
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Default

Well, just in case anyone was wondering...

I have NEVER in my entire life looked at the size of any ladies clothing and made any sort of judgement based on that number. (I have checked my wife's sizes when planning on buying her a gift of clothing).

I strongly suspect this in an area that most men are totally clueless about. The size of clothing a woman wears is meaningless to us, unless we're shopping for you! Frankly, we don't care what size you wear. For ladies we know, we care about YOU, not your clothes. For ladies we don't know, we'll notice if you're "looking good", but that has much more to do with your personal style and the way you present yourself than the size of your clothes.

Just thought that was worth sharing.

Dan
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  #10   ^
Old Tue, Mar-16-04, 09:38
Paris Paris is offline
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Default

Look like MM was not as plus-sized as we would like to believe ---

Skinny Cat on Marilyn's Dress Size

NPR on Marilyn's Elusive Size 12
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  #11   ^
Old Tue, Mar-16-04, 10:59
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bvtaylor bvtaylor is offline
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Default Well Marilyn was close to a 12

The error is comparing size 12 of years past to size 12 today. Big difference.

Marilyn was close to a 12/14 by bust and hip back when size 12 actually read more similarly to the back of my pattern, except her waist was significantly smaller. Rule of thumb for fitting is to go by the bust and hip. Now the pattern was from 1984 and I'm not sure in Marilyn's day whether smaller waists were more common (more than likely with the diet of the day... that's not a lowfat decade for sure). Plus this was a time when undergarments still functioned in a more corset-like fashion to really hold a woman in. Tiny waists were very fashionable.

Quote:

...............................Size 8........Size 10.......Size 12......Size 14
Bust.........................31 1/2".......32 1/2".......34"............36"
Waist........................24"............25"............26 1/2".......28"
Hip...(9" below waist)...33 1/2"......34 1/2 "......36"............38"

Quote:
Joelle's claiming that Marilyn Monroe wasn't a size 12. And she's linking to a journalist who shows us visual proof. Not quite ready to have my world crashing down on my head, I decided to do a bit of research myself. What size was Marilyn?

Her official site says she's 5'5 1/2, and gives her measurements as 37-23-36 (Studio's Claim) or 35-22-35 (Dressmaker's Claim). This site list other reported measurements as 36-24-24 to 38-23-36. Snopes wisely reminds us that women's figures tend to (gasp!) change, and offers the following stats:
Height: 5 feet, 5½ inches
Weight: 118-140 pounds
Bust: 35-37 inches
Waist: 22-23 inches
Hips: 35-36 inches
Bra size: 36D
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Mar-16-04, 11:04
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bvtaylor bvtaylor is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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Default Government standards...

Wouldn't it be nice for the government to set up clothing standards for size? I think it would be awesome.

Imagine being able to go to any store and know realistically what size to buy!

(And to Dan, who really loves his wife, a word of appreciation from all the females who have agonized over size through the years).

It's not as bad with menswear because size is usually based on straight chest, waist, and hip measurements.
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-04, 15:06
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Default

My wife is very petite and is still about 20-25 pounds from her goal weight. Her concern is that she is already wearing a size 2 and doesn't know what she will wear by the time she gets to her goal. Women's sizes seem to stop at 0 and she doesn't want to have to always wear clothes that are too loose for her. She is very proud of her weight loss and wants to flaunt it with tight clothes. The only solution that she has found so far is to shop at trendier stores that cater to teens. Their sizes seem to be smaller than those of more general department stores. This is a dilema for her because while she likes to look trendy at times, she also wants clothes that are more mature looking for work and more formal settings.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Mar-17-04, 18:07
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CindySue48 CindySue48 is offline
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Default

Well chef, my daughter shopped in the children's department when she lost weight (she was rail thin due to stress). The problem with her, tho is she's 5'9", so she couldn't buy jeans and pants, but shorts, skirts and tops were no problem. At the time she was around 105.

(Since then she's up to around 145# and looks wonderful! She's still thin, but she's healthy thin)
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  #15   ^
Old Thu, Mar-18-04, 00:57
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Vicki B. Vicki B. is offline
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Default

Great article!! I've often wondered about the sizes changing over the years. I know that in High School I weighed about 150 and wore a size 14. Now a days I see women that have to weigh much more than that claiming they are a size 14! I always thought they were exaggerating their size. But they probably are telling the truth if the sizing standard has changed.
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