From the posts, it certainly sounds like we could keep a couple of therapists busy for awhile sounding out reasons and so forth.

I am 51 and have been either obese or on a yo-yo my whole life. I was 220 in high school and 150 when I was married and last year was 280.

Over this time, I know I have had emotional issues -- I ate from boredom, loneliness, you name it, I ate for it. Are they the cause of the obesity or the result or completely disconnected? I don't know.

I have known for a long time that I was addicted to food. What I didn't realize was that I was not addicted to all food. So over the years, the low fat diets worked but I still had cravings that were not satisfied -- I just managed to put mind and results over matter. I didn't understand the underlying premise with the LC WOE until I finally read Atkins and at that point, the light bulb did go on -- that was in September.

I won't guarantee that I will never again grab some chocolate to heal a wound. But I do know that if I do, I will know full well what it will do to me. And that is a huge step in making full peace with the addiction that I have.

Again, thanks for the thread, InControl

I agree with Liz here. There are no blanket statements about the behaviors of people. We are all different.



I don't think we can always just blatantly blame people. Let's face it, many of us have blamed ourselves for years thinking we ought to be able to control ourselves better. Do I blame my father for working for the 7up company? After all he brought home all the free sugary pop I wanted since the day I was born! And does my daughter blame me for not understanding the reasons she was fat at age 3? It's time to quit blaming anyone and get on with educating them instead.

If anything, the mental issue I might have to deal with is the anger I feel with the educational institution in this country. Just why is it that we didn't know about this before now? Why is that my daughter didn't learn this in school? She'll graduate this year from high school and the only reason she understands it now is from the learning I've found on this forum and in the books I've recently read.

Woo, I understand what you are trying to say and in some cases I would agree. But given what we are taught to eat and the messages we get about food in American society, I think anyone eating a normal diet in America will get fat. Some people don't get fat, but I believe it is because they are metabolically faster and/or exercise a great deal. For the typical sedentary worker, eating the American diet, obesity is just around the corner if it isn't there yet. The obesity epidemic we are facing today is not caused by an increase in people who have psychological issues around food. It is caused by many factors in our culture. Good lord just look at the typical size of a restaurant meal. Orchid

Most people do not get big to TDC proportions. Very few people get to that point.

I think there is a solid relationship between degree of overweight and propensity to have behavioral of problems with food. It's not 100% (few things about people are), but in general it makes sense to assume that the more overweight you are, the more likely it is that your weight problem is multi-faceted.

I do think most people simply need to cut out the sugary soda and starches, and they would no longer be overweight. However, most people only need to lose a couple of pounds and eat relatively normally. Most obese people do not eat normally, nor do they have a normal relationship with food. Researchers have demonstrated time and time again that obese people underestimate how much, and the quality, of food they consume. I once saw this special on tv where researchers randomly assigned low fat/cal and high fat/cal diets to groups of obese people; many of the obese people thought they were on the low fat/low cal diet when they were not (which demonstrates just how unhealthy they actually ate before).

Like I said many times before this doesn't apply to all people, but I do firmly stand by my belief that it is true of most obese people.

I do think I got fat eating way too much of all the wrong things. I know what I was eating and why I am fat. I do believe that I am also genetically predisposed and insulin resistent after years of eating that way then yo-yo dieting my way down again. I certainly know what made me fat! But I do think that many TDC folks have metabolic differences that make them far more likely to gain weight and not be able to take it off.

For instance, I absolutely believe that some folks who pursue weight loss surgery can lose no other way. We have many people here on the forum who were unable to lose with weight watchers or any low-cal program even though they were just as religious with it as they were with low-carbing. I can't say that - I lose weight pretty much the same regardless of the plan, I just didn't stick with them because I was miserable. Weight Watchers cannot explain it - I think there is still a lot we don't know about body chemistry and the role of hormones in all of this. The science is still in its infancy stage.

I'm not going to try to generalize from myself to most obese people; I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist specializing in eating disorders. All I can talk about is myself.

I'm morbidly obese. Hey--that's what the TDC is about! Morbidly obese people working on becoming fit and lean. Do I have issues about food? You bet! Not only the obvious ones (I spent way too many years eating way too much) but some hidden ones (like WHY did I spend so much time and energy shielding myself from other slings and arrows by building up the armor of 160+ pounds of fat?)

It's the latter issues that are painful; I'm sitting here thinking about them and feeling my mind skittering away like an abused horse. My stomach is churning as I write this.

I know I have to deal with these issues before I can be sure that when I lose the weight I want to/need to lose, I'll keep it off. I also know that I was raised in a family that didn't air its dirty linen in public, by a couple who did not believe in therapy--and I possibly will have to overcome that block before I can be assured of success. Not possibly--PROBABLY. It's scary.

Somehow, this thread moved away from the individual (me, I, the person writing) to the general (you, your, everyone who...). I don't know if that is because it is easier to deal with the general than the specific, or if it feels better to think there is some "pop" answer; I do know that I feel uncomfortable reading what feels like attacks. The only things I've learned about glittering generalities during my 53 years is that they don't apply to ANYONE, and can get in the way of real thought.

My 2 cents.

Jude

To repeat many others, this is a great topic. I personally believe that most people are overweight for emotional and physiological reasons. I have known many overweight people and most of them link it to emotional causes. (I've talked to alot of people about weight...coworkers, friends, family, group counseling, etc.) In my case, I think it is mostly emotional. The fact that my body can't handle carbs well just exacerbates the issue.
Many women I know that are overweight, including myself, have been sexually molested or raped at some point in their lives, so sometimes people gain weight in an unconscious attempt to avoid sexual attention. For me, it's also about loving and accepting myself.
I've been below my goal weight before...and I gained it back...mainly because I didn't deal with the issues surrounding it. Part of me was expecting to be "fixed" and "perfect" once I got thin...heeh...i got a rude awakening I was just as miserable thin as I had been overweight. So for me, I'm working on changing the inside as well as the outside this time.

Anywhooo....I was actually thinking about posting a topic similiar to this last night...i'm glad someone did because I've been wanting to talk about it...I love reading everyone's responses.

Melaney

Jude,
I came from the same type household as you...I was seen as weak and I guess a bit of a traitor(?) if I felt like talking about my issues...especially in reguards to counseling. I had anorexia quite badly in high school and I purposefully had a huge breakdown in front of my parents to try to show them how much I needed help...they still wouldn't let me go....sigh. But anyway, I got help in college....so I know where you're coming from. It only makes things worse if issues aren't talked about and dealt with.
(To my parents credit, they have gotten much better ...they're mellowing a little now...hehe)
I never really fit into my family in that way...i need to talk about stuff. Psychology is very interesting to me. I'm often the one people talk to when they need help....I'm a psychology grad now..so go figure! haha

Well for me carb abuse began VERY early. One of my earliest memories, about 3 or 4, is being found under the dining table DRINKING maple syrup! My other favorite was brown sugar. While my mom did not have dessert on hand everyday it wasn't a big no-no. There were usually cookies in the house but I had to share them with 4 siblings including a big and HUNGRY brother. I think one of mom's tricks was to get cookies we didn't particularly like such as Pecan Sandies when what we wanted were Oreos or Chips Ahoy. What is so funny now is that my kids love Pecan Sandies but they are not on my shopping radar but Oreos sure are--well, were, I don't dare have them in the house right now. I think one of the reasons that I didn't really have a weight problem as a child was because, looking back, we really ate a fairly low carb menu. Breakfast was normally eggs or some low sugar cereal, lunch was PBJs on whole wheat light on the J or meat sandwiches on wwb and dinner was meat, veggie, salad and a starch but only one. Bread or rolls were only on the table for special occasions because mom didn't want us filling up on it. My real problem back then was what I could get on the side and in middle school it only got worse because we could go downtown (such as it was!) for lunch and EVERY day found me eating 5 candy bars in addition to my lunch and sugared soda. I was devestated when the candy went from 5 cents to 7 cents! That was a major dent in my allowance! (Is this a sign of the times that there is no cent symbol on my keyboard?) I think that it was made worse by the fact that school was an absolutely miserable experience for me and eating the candy was certainly one way of feeling better--or so I thought!

Even greater than any psychological hang ups about food for me are hang ups about exercise! I hated gym and the house we grew up in did not have a yard conducive to playing unless you were a mountain goat! My description of starting my day would be that on a daily basis I had to climb out of a pit! The bedrooms were downstairs and the house below street level! Talk about a psychological mindset!! Even now my issue is not so much food but getting off my keister and getting it moving!! Being from a family of greater interest in intellectual pursuits than atheletic endeavors there was never much of a push to get moving although my 86 year old father is still taking a daily walk after having been told to 30 or so years ago! As does my "Twiggy" sister!

I believe that there are as many different combinations of factors leading to obesity as there are obese people! Even siblings could be obese for different reasons. One could have an actual problem and the other may have just eaten her way there. In some families you have several toothpicks and one with a real problem (I had a classmate like that) in others you may have the reverse. Some may have family problems, others may have school problems, others may have genetic tendencies and others may develop the problem. Some are heavy from the beginning and others react to some physical experience and others may listen to "conventional wisdom" and end up with a problem.

I think most of us have issues that need to be dealt with whether we are obese or not. It's the human condition! As far a therapy is concerned I can see a use for it but not if it is an eternal, never-ending thing. I was in therapy for a couple of months because my sister and mother thought it might help (I think social interaction lessons may have been more useful!) but all that woman would do was to sit there and listen to whatever came into my head. I came to the conclusion that it was a waste of time because I knew what was in my head! I wanted to know what to do with it!! My sisters, however, are wed to the idea that therapy is necessary for everyone! (One of my sisters is wed to a psychoanalyst but even he can't figure her out!) Therapy with a specific goal or for a specific issue and an end in sight can be very useful, but than so can a good, honest friend who is willing to kick butt!!

Connie

Very interesting thread. I've been obese since I was about 10. Did I become obese because I had psychological issues that made me eat more? Or was I sensitive to carbs? Or a bit of both? Then as I grew up, being fat created a whole new set if issues. I developed a need to please everyone, to be good all the time, I had serious low-self esteem and a host of other miscellaneous issues. But I know lots of women with the same issues that aren't obese. I thought for a very long time that my issues were the cause of my obesity or at the very least the reason I couldn't lose weight after becoming obese. I entered therapy and worked very hard on my self-esteem and food issues. The self esteem issues were solved (as much as they can be for a continually evolving human being) but the food issues were not.

Once in therapy, my therapist sent me for testing to a different therapist. He told me that he thought my issues were more a result of my obesity than the other way around. He thought if I just lost weight I'd be far more confident, less anxious and have better self esteem. I was so mad at him I was furious. I thought it was the other way around at the time, that I couldn't lose weight until I solved the other problems.

This is a very long way to say that I think the two issues, the psychological and the physiological aspects of obesity become intertwined, but that it's impossible to generalize that one causes the other. In my case, I think the obesity caused (or at least made worse) many of my psychological issues. I can see though that there are many for whom the psychological issues caused the obesity. That's easy to see in the examples above of abused girls who develop obesity.

Regardless though, I keep coming back to the fact that not all people with these emotional issues develop eating problems. Is that because only people that have a carb sensitivity get fat? I don't know. I really don't know. And I don't think any of us really can know.

Valerie

I haven't had emotional issues with eating since reading the book "Diets Don't Work", and that was something like 1981 or 82.

I didn't eat sugar or crap to get me to 310. I remember being 270, riding my bike 25 miles per evening, and deciding that I needed to take a perfectly healthy diet and shave off more fat (jeez, I was already at less than 5%!), decrease my meat intake (which was alread just moderate amounts of fish and chicken) and focus on whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Dinner was usually a bowl of whole wheat pasta (with nothing on in) and occasionally an apple.

I ended up with the sickest several years of my life after that, unable to sustain any exercise and barely able to function enough to hold a job. I was testing positive for Mixed Connective Tissue Disease (autoimmune condition where your body eats it's own connective tissue) and had otherwise healthy blood work except for my albumin globulin ratio (which was so out of whack that it indicated severe malnutrition), but since I was by then 310 it was considered an oddity or an artifact instead of a sign that I was eating nothing but complex carbs while doing exercise that required proteins for muscle repair!

I've got the Dr. Phil book and taken the test for the 7 keys and you know what? All I needed to fix was my diet and exercise. All of the other baggage had been retired more than 20 years ago. I can't even imagine myself emotional eating any more than I can imagine myself emotionally spending money (Queen of Frugal here. )

I started following a diabetic diet because without it I had blood sugar crashes that could scare bystanders. That helped me lose weight, but I had to eat every four hours and eat more calories than I do on low carb to keep me from being too weak to function. Low carb permits my body to function in a healthy manner - even at moderate levels of food and high exercise.

The only troubles I've had with weight loss since giving up low-fat eating have been isolated cases of carb creep, and a bit of stalling when I was trying to balance intake and exercise by feel rather than by tracking calories. No need to eat off my plan for holidays, family tragedy, stress, or any emotional reason (which is the same behavior I've had for 20 years) but now, finally no need to eat to have the strength to keep standing or keep from fainting.

I may very well be a statistical anomoly, as may be Liz and a whole bunch of us that have tried everything before finding low carbs. Then again, we might just be old, experienced dieters that have dilligently tried everything and are many years past their days of eating for any reason other than nourishment.

Lynda

For me, I don't care how I got fat and I don't spend valuable time rehashing the past.

Today is a new day, and thats all I care about......how to suceed today

Motivation is 1/3 of the weight loss triangle (with diet and exercise), but its motivation for learning and striving to become better. I know that I will never weigh 400 lbs again because my tool box is full of secrets, so what happened when I was 10 doesn't matter....it happened to somebody else, not the self actualized person I am today.

About a year and a half ago, there was a guy in the TDC who was always looking at the psychological issues of his past instead of paying attention to the moment. To this day, he can't get over the past (still posts once every 3 months or so) and hasn't gotten anywhere.

Don't let that be you.....

Thanks to all who have replied because you have helped so much on what I've been thinking about.

See. I've been skinny MOST of my life. Things REALLY spun out of control during "INFERTILITY" up to my first pregnancy. But my whole life I've had ISSUES with food. I always knew there was a beast within. I had to constantly watch my weight and what I ate. And I did it! But there was nothing NATURAL about it. Watching what I ate was part of my everyday life. I wouldn't call me a hard-core bulimic or anorexic, however, I would say I dabbled with both.

So really my relationship with food wasn't all that normal when I was skinny! But no matter what the emotional issue...It was more important for me to stay SKINNY than to blow up and let myself get FAT as I have. So my question is what has led me here? When did I say...it's okay to be 250 pounds? Because it's not okay!!!! What was my payoff as Dr. Phil says?

I found some general guidelines on re-thinking weightloss that come from Dr. Phil on: http://www.oprah.com/health/omag/he...hilweight.jhtml

They are:

Step One: Take Ownership of Your Reactions
Step Two: Resolve Life's Problems
Step Three: Decelerate Your Thinking
Step Four: Challenge Your Thoughts
Step Five: Gain Closure
Step Six: Learn to Forgive
Step Seven: Cope Without Food

I'm definitely buying the Dr. Phil book! Thanks for the recommendation on that one. Because FOR ME, I have to work out the Why's so I can stay on track and so that I can keep the weight off later! So that I can have a normal relationship with FOOD for a change. I want to be successful NOW AND FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE. I've got the plan...atkins. Now I need the mindset.

One of my favorite motivational speakers is "Zig Ziggler". Anyone know him? One of my favorite quotes by him is...

You are who you are because of what has gone into your mind. You can change who you are by changing what goes into your mind.

I believe our minds are where our successes begin and end. Once we have it squared away there (our mind), the rest is easy. Prayer helps keep my mind on course that way. Because in the morning, afternoon and evening I'm praying for help. I always have more success dieting when I pray for help.

I DEFINITELY think most of us need to work on our minds and our bodies! I definitely believe this is a physical, emotional and spiritual journey that has the potential to bring us all to a higher level of thinking, living and feeling. And I think in the end we will all end up happier people.

Jerry. You are absolutely right. I WILL continue this WOE to work towards my goal in the here and NOW! I won't let go of that. I've seen people wait to have the emotional issues cleared before they start. I think that can be an EXCUSE really to put off the change. BUT, for me I know I have to also change my "STINKIN THINKIN" too so I don't end up going off my plan AND so that when my goal is achieved I can NEVER let myself go up the scale walk again.

Thanks for posting such an important reminder! You are absolutely right.

Yup Jerry....you are right....and that is why we take it one day at a time. We would all rather move forward than backwards. Baby steps...