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  #1   ^
Old Fri, Jan-16-04, 18:59
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
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Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default Cholesterol--niacin and pantothenic acid

Months on Atkins has raised my numbers, not lowered them. I'm starting No-flush niacin and pantothenic acid. So far I'm feeling lethargic with heat in my face and intense thirst. Are these symptoms typical of these medications?
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  #2   ^
Old Fri, Jan-16-04, 19:31
tofi's Avatar
tofi tofi is offline
Posts: 6,204
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 244/220/170 Female 65.4inches
BF:
Progress: 32%
Location: Ontario
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The flush that follows (red face, sense of heat) is definitely from the niacin (despite its being no flush). You might want to do a google.com search for these supplements and "side effects".
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Jan-16-04, 19:32
ira ira is offline
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Posts: 106
 
Plan: protein power-GO diet
Stats: 224/179/166 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 78%
Location: seattle, wa
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I too had higher numbers ona low carb diet. It sounds like regular, not no flush niacin you took. I've had great luck with policosanol in lowering my numbers.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Jan-16-04, 23:33
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
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Posts: 37,413
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/190/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Default

Elevated cholesterol isn't necessarily an indicator of increased heart risk. If your HDL has increased to a level over 60, congratulations. That level is protective even if the LDL is also elevated. Speaking of LDL, they now know that there are different types of LDL, some of which are beneficial to health. So unless they differentiate types of LDL (a very expensive test) it really doesn't mean anything. Are your triglycerides over 200? If so, that *may* be a risk.

Another factor may be arachidonic acid. This is a fatty acid found in the fat of red meat and egg yolks. It's converted to prostaglandins in the body which can cause reactions in sensitive individuals .. including elevated cholesterol, high blood pressure, skin rashes, joint pains. Here's what the Drs. Eades of Protein Power have to say about AA ..
Quote:
Can I really eat all the red meat and egg yolks I want?

Most people can. However, there are a few concerns to keep in mind. First, you can’t do < low carb > halfway. You can’t increase your protein foods haphazardly and continue to eat carbohydrates as you do now and expect to see results. In fact, you’ll be worsening your problems if you do so.

Second, there are some people who may have problems with large amounts of red meat and large quantities of egg yolks. These people: have elevated blood pressure and/or cholesterol, retain abnormally high amounts of fluid, and/or suffer from inflammatory conditions such as skin rashes, asthma, allergies, bursitis, or arthritis.

It’s not the cholesterol in red meat and egg yolks that is the problem. It’s the fact that they are high in arachidonic acid, which can promote or worsen the above conditions.

Here is the strategy for these folks to follow: Eliminate red meat and egg yolks from your diet completely for three weeks. At the end of the three week period, take stock of your health. Has it improved? Eat a large portion of red meat and eggs for a couple of meals and observe what happens. If your problems reappear of get worse, you are sensitive to arachidonic acid and should have these foods only once in a while. When you do have them, make sure to remove as much of the fat from the beef as possible. Grill the beef. This will reduce the arachidonic acid by as much as 35%. Another option is to marinate the meat in a combination of red wine and olive oil or light sesame oil for 24 hours before grilling.

As far as eggs are concerned, have no more than one or two whole eggs at a sitting, and eat egg whites the rest of the time. Also, you should avoid margarine altogether (as everyone should).

http://eatprotein.com/answers6.htm#6b


hth,

Doreen
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  #5   ^
Old Thu, Jan-29-04, 08:50
OHGal1415's Avatar
OHGal1415 OHGal1415 is offline
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Posts: 387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/225/145 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 36%
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Could you please provide the numbers, preferrably before and current numbers?

And as Doreen said, "higher numbers" do not necessarily indicate increased risk of heart health. You may be doing all this extra vitamin stuffing unnecesarily.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Jan-29-04, 09:55
kaypeeoh kaypeeoh is offline
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Posts: 1,216
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 185/180/165
BF:
Progress: 25%
Default

10/03:

Chol 240
LDL 158

10/02:

Chol 227
LDL 155

Assuming that Chol minus LDL equals HDL, I was at 72 one year ago and 82 now.

For about two weeks now I've been taking one gram of pantothenic acid daily, 1.6 grams of inositol hexonicotinate and 2.6 grams of primrose oil. The flushing has subsided but I get quite sleepy within an hour of taking the vitamins. Also I had a few days of constipation but that seemed recently to abate. The constipation might have been caused by drinking a lot more coffee to counteract the sleepiness. Too much coffee can be dehydrating.

Two more weeks of this and I will have another blood test done. If it shows no improvement then next I'll try policosanol. If that doesn't help then I'll have to give up the Atkins Diet. Several years ago while following a vegetarian version of the Zone Diet my cholesterol level went down to roughly 180. I just didn't like the diet much. But I'm older now and more inclined to have discipline.
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  #7   ^
Old Thu, Jan-29-04, 10:39
OHGal1415's Avatar
OHGal1415 OHGal1415 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/225/145 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 36%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaypeeoh
10/03:

Chol 240
LDL 158

10/02:

Chol 227
LDL 155

Assuming that Chol minus LDL equals HDL, I was at 72 one year ago and 82 now.


It doesn't. HDL is an actual reading taken from a bloodtest. LDL is merely a calculation, based on total cholesterol-HDL-tris/5. Do you not have a hardcopy of your HDL and triglyceride numbers?

And, this is copied from another bulletin board, but I think is very important to re-iterate--
Quote:
HDL (high density lipoprotein) cholesterol is supposedly the "good" cholesterol, and LDL (low density lipoprotein) the "bad" cholesterol. Except this is very misleading! There are bad HDL particles and there are good LDL particles. The good LDL particle is Pattern A, which is a large, "fluffy" particle that resists oxidation, which therefore doesn't contribute to heart disease. LDL particle Pattern B, is small, very dense, and very easily oxidized. This particle encourages heart disease. A diet that encouages excess blood sugar and excess insulin levels tend to cause Pattern B particles. A diet high in saturated fat encourages Pattern A particles, while it also raises HDL. So, if you want to know your heart disease risk from LDL, you need to have the LDL particles measured and identified. A simple cholesterol test which includes a calculated LDL doesn't tell you ANYTHING.

We can't forget about VLDL, which is even smaller and more dense that Pattern B LDL. The higher the triglycerides, the higher the VLDL. This is not a good thing. VLDL is very easily oxidized.

VLDL is estimated by dividing triglycerides by 5, and this is part of the Friedewald equation used to determine LDL, which is expressed on a cholesterol test as calculated LDL.

LDL = total cholesterol minus HDL minus triglycerides divided by 5.

Total Cholesterol 320
HDL 60
Triglycerides 500 divided by 5 = 100
Calculated LDL 160


Total Cholesterol 320
HDL 60
Triglycerides 150 divided by 5 = 30
Calculated LDL 230


Total Cholesterol 320
HDL 60
Triglycerides 50 divided by 5 =10
Calculated LDL 250

As you can see by this, lowering triglycerides automatically raises LDL whether LDL actually changed or not.

Also, the magic number of 200 hundred as being a "healthy" cholesterol level is not based on science, but on politics and money:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/enig_chol.html
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  #8   ^
Old Thu, Jan-29-04, 10:41
OHGal1415's Avatar
OHGal1415 OHGal1415 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 387
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 270/225/145 Female 5'4
BF:
Progress: 36%
Default

Here's another article you may find interesting:

http://www.westonaprice.org/know_yo...fats_phony.html
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