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Originally Posted by Lisa N
While the issue of Andy and Candy sparked this whole thread, I think there's a larger issue underlying the whole thing and there are a few things that bear discussing.
First: how much extra fat can you have on your body before someone can say that you are no longer acceptable or that you have "let yourself go"?
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Acceptable to whom, and for what? If "Candy" packs on another 50 or so pounds, do you think that "Andy" should be expected to respond sexually to "Candy" as eagerly as he did when they were first married? If not, then isn't letting her know this when she's "only" 50 or so pounds overweight a better idea than waiting until she's completely unattractive (in his eyes)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
It seems to me that would be a very subjective thing
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Yes, it is. What about it? In human relationships, "subjective" does not equal "invalid" (unless you're an Objectivist, in which case I think you've got bigger problems than being a few pounds overweight
(kidding))
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
In our current society, the thin and beautiful receive validation while the overweight or average looking person does not; the booming plastic surgery business is testament to that, but does this mean we should all fall in with the majority and buy into this idea as valid?...The prevailing notion that carrying what someone else considers an unacceptable amount of extra pounds suddenly makes you a valid target for verbal abuse...
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If you don't think the majority's view is valid, what do you care for their opinions at all, at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
The underlying philosophy with that is only the thin and beautiful are worthy of validation/promotion/attention or even being hired as an employee and that a person's worth is determined solely by their appearance.
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Not to belabor the obvious, but the relationship between husband and wife ("Andy" and "Candy" in this case) is different from the relationship between employer and employee. For example, if my boss said, "We're not going to promote you to an outside sales position until you lose 50 pounds, because we think our customers don't want to deal with a fat guy," I would think he was WAY out of line. OTOH, if my wife said, "I'm afraid that if you gain much more weight, I won't want to have sex with you anymore," I would take that to heart. Different relationships, different rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
How would you all feel if Andy stood his wife up on a stage at the local mall and invited these same comments, even if Candy was willing to subject herself to such treatment?
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I'll agree that if that Web site was a sincere attempt at an "intervention" (and not a joke), it was a remarkably clumsy one -- perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever seen a well-meaning husband do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
Are shaming/badgering/manipulating/threatening valid methods to get someone else to conform to your standards?
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Yes, if they work
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
Are they effective and do the means justify the end? IMO, only the vain or the insecure are motivated by such methods. Ultimately, all of those methods are about one person controlling another and that is not what a healthy relationship should be based on. Should the love between a husband and wife be conditional or unconditional?
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"Should" has to be one of the most useless words in the English language. Relationships are what they are. Whether "Andy" "should" feel just the same about his wife at 30 or 50 or 100 pounds over her wedding weight is irrelevant -- the fact is, he
does feel differently about her. Do you think he should just pretend he doesn't care that she's slowly becoming less attractive to him, or is it better to bring it out in the open now? (leaving aside the question of whether that Web site was a good way to address the situation, because it wasn't, IMO).
Some people feel that homosexuals "should" not feel attraction to members of their own sex, but "should" rather be attracted to the opposite sex -- or at least
pretend they're attracted to the opposite sex. Do you agree? Or do you think homosexuals ought to be able to be attracted to whatever they're attracted to? If the latter, why shouldn't "Andy" get the same consideration as a homosexual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa N
Ultimately, it's not so much an issue of whether or not Candy should drop the weight, it's really an issue about what determines a person's worth and makes them deserving of "validation" (whatever that may be), the love and support of their spouse or SO and the attitude that only thin and beautiful are deserving of such things.
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"Deserving" -- that's right up there with "should" when it comes to utility, as Gandalf might have said to Frodo. Does "Candy" "deserve" to have "Andy" desire her if she's 100 pounds overweight? It's irrelevant -- the fact is, he probably won't.