My husband is Type II Diabetic (oral meds). He needs to lose weight and saw how well I did on Atkins so he asked his Endocronologist about it. His doctor said to go for it but he was a little concerned about his kidneys on this diet.

MY QUESTION: I just read an article which said too much protein may cause kidney stones or kidney damage. How much is "Too Much?" I shuter when I give my husband protein now but how do you do Atkins and keep the protein low? Also, my husband has hight cholesterol, so I'm concerned about the red meat and eggs. I've been doing great on this WOE myself; but I do not have any health issues. My hubby, however, is another story. His doctor will be checking him more frequently now, but he's leaving the food choices and cooking up to me; that makes me a tad nervous! Need help with my concerns if anyone knows the TRUE lowdown on Protein vs. Kidneys. Thanks!

If you got his doctor's ok on it, you really should get started on it and get those blood sugars down. As far as I know the biggest causes of kidney damage are diabetes (un or poorly controlled) and high blood pressure (uncontrolled).

The doctor I am sure ran a few tests on him to determine the relative health of his kidneys. Since the doctor didn't send him to a kidney specialist, I would have to believe the doctor that they are going to continue to monitor his kidney function as well as other indicators (like cholesterol) to make sure everything is going well. My GP monitors my kidney function each and every visit with a urinalysis.

It's not very often that the doctor says go for it, especially an endocrinologist with Atkins.

Good luck to you both,

wsgts

To quote Dr. Bernstein:

Because the survival rate of diabetics on dialysis is so much lower than that of nondiabetics, some dialysis centers are now using low carbohydrate, high-protein diets for their diabetic patients.

In summary: Diabetic nephropathy does not appear if blood sugar is kept normal. Dietary protein does not cause diabetic nephropathy, but can possibly (still uncertain) slightly accelerate the process once there has been major, irreversible kidney damage. Dietary protein has no substantial effect upon the GFR of healthy kidneys, certainly not in comparison to the GFR increase caused by elevated blood sugar levels.*

The May 1996 Journal of the American Medical Association published a summary of fifty-six studies demonstrating that in nondiabetics increased protein consumption actually lowered blood pressure.

It's not the protein that they eat, it's the high blood sugars!
When blood sugar enters the bloodstream in excess it can by bound to a hemoglobin molecule and become glycosylated hemoglobin. Now, normally hemoglobin (a protein) is not filtered by the kidneys because the molecule is too large to fit through the filtering pores. Glucose, on the other hand, is filtered through the kidneys when it is in excess; this is one of the methods that the body uses to lower high blood sugars, but dumping the excess through the urine. The problem comes in when glucose is bound to hemoglobin. The body tries to dump the excess glucose by filtering it through the kidneys and into the urine, but runs into a problem. The glucose is now bound to an already too large hemoglobin molecule and now looks something like this oO. The small end is the glucose molecule and the large is the hemoglobin. When the glucose/hemoglobin molecule tries to fit through the filtering pore, it gets stuck. Pressure builds up behind the stuck molecule and eventually forces it through the filtering pore causing damage. When this process repeats itself thousands of times a day, the damage is escalated.
For the most part, diabetic complications are caused by poorly controlled blood sugars or blood sugars that are maintained above non-diabetic readings (which some doctors feel is perfectly acceptable). If you want to avoid diabetic complications, the best way to do that is by maintaining non-diabetic blood sugars as much as humanly possible.



It's been known for quite some time that eating eggs does not raise your blood cholesterol. As a matter of fact, over 80% of the cholesterol in your bloodstream is produced by your own body and when dietary cholesterol is cut your body reacts by producing more itself and it's usually the bad LDL when it does. Saturated fats in red meat and eggs may slightly raise LDL cholesterol, but it also raises HDL cholesterol (something you want!), so that end result is pretty much an unchanged ratio in cardiac profile. Something else about low carbing and LDL; cutting the carbs causes a shift in the type of LDL present in the bloodstream from the dense, sticky type (high density LDL) which is harmful to the lighter, fluffy type (very low density LDL) which is now throught to be beneficial instead of harmful. Combine all that with lowering triglycerides and cardiac profiles improve considerably in most low carbers.

Blood pressure is also usually lowered through low carbing. Mine certainly was!

Lisa, what an excellent post. Thank you for that clarity.

I wish I could bookmark it somehow...

Morgan,
Has your husband'd Dr suggested a 24hr urine test, this test gives a complete idea of kidney fuction.
It might put your mind at ease.
Rosie

Thank you so much! I printed your message and gave it to hubby last night to read. He felt much better after reading it, as I did! I think some of the others misunderstood my post. My hubby's blood sugars are not out of control and he's doing fine. However, that's because he is on oodles of meds! We want to control his blood sugars/cholesterol/blood pressure with diet and exercise as opposed to medications; as Dr. Atkins believes is possible even with diabetics.

Thank you, again, for the great post!

Yes, his doctor checks his kidneys on a regular basis. He has been diabetic for 10 years now and has been under constant doctor's care (Endocrinologist) since. The only reason I asked the question was because of the article I read saying, "too much protein may cause kidney stones." What I was actually asking was....How much protein is "too much." That's what I'm not sure of. I know it depends on the person, their weight/size, the amount of calories consummed a day, etc., but I was just looking for a ballpark figure of "too much."

Thanks for your post, Rosie. I appreciate all the replies.

The reason I ask about that specific test is that until I got a new endo, my Dr had only done the "dip". Last time I had to pee in a bottle over the course of a day. This test was much more thorough, detailing the pressure on the kidneys, etc. as well as protien. Rosie

I'm pretty sure he does the pee-in-a-bottle test , but I'll have to ask to make sure. Thanks, Rosie!

I think I know which article you were reading that stated that too much protein can cause kidney stones. If it's the same one, they tested only a handful of subjects and they weren't even on a low carb diet for the entire study (I believe it was 2 weeks out of 6) and the conclusion was that based on the changes in blood chemistry, kidney stones might result but none actually devloped during the study.
In fact, no study has ever shown that eating protein can damage healthy kidneys in any way. If you already have advanced kidney disease then yes, it becomes necessary to limit protein intake as at that point the extra protein can accelerate the disease process. The best way to prevent kidney stones is....you guessed it; drink plenty of water!
Dr. Bernstein himself was beginning to show the signs of early diabetic nephropathy. After putting himself on the low carb way of eating, it reversed itself. So much for protein causing a problem in most people.
How much is too much protein? Like you stated above, that varies from person to person and is based on weight, gender and activity levels, but generally speaking 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass is not excessive. For me, that would work out to about 130 grams of protein per day. That's a lot of protein. To get that much, I would have to eat more than 4 six ounce cans of tuna packed in water or nearly 19 ounces of T-bone steak or 21 ounces of boneless, skinless chicken breast or nearly 20 grade A large eggs. That's a lot of meat!
I believe that what Dr. Bernstein states in his book is that most adults require (minimum) 9 ounces of good quality protein per day to prevent loss of lean body mass, although he doesn't give a maximum, that's the point he doesn't recommend going below.

Hi, I was sent here from another board. I am a diabetic on oral meds. I am new to this . I need to know if a protein drink would be a good source to get my protein

I think that would depend largely on the protein drink you are using. I'm curious why you would prefer to get your protein in liquid form instead of by eating protein? Another thing to consider is that often protein drinks are often lacking in essential fatty acids, so you would need to supplement with those if you were getting your protein strictly from a liquid source.
Personally, I get a great deal more enjoyment from eating a nice piece of roasted chicken or a good grilled steak than I would from drinking a protein shake.

Iguess i think it would be less calories.I dont really know what i am doing yet. And i dont really know if i should be eating fat i know i shouldnt be eating sugar.My protein drink is 48g of protein no fat and no sugar and no carbs help

Unprocessed protein sources (not stuff like lunchmeats, etc...) have no carbs or sugars, either and do have the essential fats that your body needs. It's really not fat that's our enemy here, it's the sugar and high glycemic carbs. I honestly don't pay that much attention to how much fat I eat on a daily basis and have managed to lose quite a bit of weight so far. Quite honestly, I think you'll be far more satisfied getting your protein in its original form and that it will fill you up better and keep you satisfied longer because of the natural fats that it contains than if you continue to drink protein shakes.
Protein shakes are good if you are working out and actively trying to build muscle and when you can't chew well (like after a dental procedure), but otherwise I honestly feel it's better to eat the meat.
You've mentioned that you are new to all this, so my first advice is to get some good books (like the Dr. Bernstein's book) and do some internet research. Learn all you can! Knowing as much as you can about what you have and how best to treat it is your first defense here since (unfortunately) a lot of doctors are likely to hand you a diet sheet and tell you to come back in six months. They might also send you to a dietician who will advise you to eat high carb/low fat and follow up with your doctor. The more you learn, the more successful you will be at controlling this.
If you're interested in Dr. Bernstein's plan or book, you can download and read entire chapters of it from his website at www.diabetes-normalsugars.com