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  #1   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 17:22
timco timco is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 195
 
Plan: Atkins / Protein Power
Stats: 215/152/150 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: New York City
Default Ketosis Unsafe?

So, I emailed the Schwarbein people asking their opinion on whether or not ketosis is safe. They said that it is absolutely unsafe and that if I wanted to know why I would have to read Schwarzbein II.

Could someone who has read Schwarzbein II please explain the rationale behind this claim that ketosis is very unsafe? I have certainly read plenty of information pointing to ketosis being completely safe, and I've been in ketosis for much of the time over the past 10 months without any effects besides 60lbs+ of fat loss. I would really like to know, though, if there is something harmful about ketosis that I'm just not seeing.

Thank you in advance for your advice,

Tim
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  #2   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 18:09
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caverjen caverjen is offline
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Posts: 1,217
 
Plan: The Primal Blueprint
Stats: 148/119/120 Female 66 inches
BF:29%/14/12%
Progress: 104%
Location: Alabama
Default check out this thread

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  #3   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 18:18
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KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

Hi Timbo

Before I start, congrats on your weight loss

I looked in my book and here is what it says - please note that in this quote she says that ketosis is never a good thing - she doesn't say it is dangerous.

from page 95 of SPII

How Your Body Uses Energy

"Your cells require energy biochemicals to stay alive. Brain Cells, red blood cells and specialized cells of your kidneys initially use sugar as th eir energy biochemical The rest of your cells can use sugars and fats interchangeably.

The only time tht your brain, red blood and kidney cells use fats for energy is when you have not eaten in over seventy-two hors At that point these cells can switch to using ketones (a breakdown of product of fats) for energy.

However, do not think that this is a good thing - it is not. By the time you start to utilize your ketones for energy, yu have used up your glycogen stores and have destroyed functional and structural biochemicals while your body has eaten istself up to survive. When you stop this "famine" or fast, your insulin levels will rebound higher than before to help you rebuild. So you will rebuild your functional and structural biochemicals and rebuild more fat stores. Putting your bodyinto ketosis is never a god thing."

There is another paragrah on page 167 about ketosis, I won't type the whole thing but she explains to a diabetic that a diet too low in carbs that results in ketosis because the isulin levels are too low - she states that too little insulin is just as damaging to the body as too much. To understand why this is would be much to long to type out here - it involves the roles of adrenalin and cortisol - and what happens to the adrenal glands when they are constantly stressed by too little/much insulin. Since SPII is all about reaching hormonal balance through diet - she dosen't recommend a WOE that causes hormonal imbalances.

Hope this helps you
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  #4   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 18:22
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

To add to my previous reply. Adrenal glands will not suffer immediately from being in ketosis, but if a person were to stay on an extremely low carb diet for an extended period of time especially if they used alcohol, caffeine or other stimulants, nicotene and or led stressful lives. Then eventually they would reach the adrenal exhaustion or burn out - resulting in a lot of problems - one of which is a difficulty in losing weight.

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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 18:26
KoKo's Avatar
KoKo KoKo is offline
Stepford Malfunction
Posts: 25,926
 
Plan: FatFlush inspired
Stats: 143.5/132/130 Female 62.5 inches
BF:37%/25.%/19%
Progress: 85%
Location: Ontario Canada
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by caverjen


Jen I must've been typing all that out while you were posting
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 19:54
caverjen's Avatar
caverjen caverjen is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,217
 
Plan: The Primal Blueprint
Stats: 148/119/120 Female 66 inches
BF:29%/14/12%
Progress: 104%
Location: Alabama
Smile As we say in Alabama...

Bless your heart! Guess your fingers got their exercise today!

Jen
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Jul-16-03, 20:21
timco timco is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 195
 
Plan: Atkins / Protein Power
Stats: 215/152/150 Male 68 inches
BF:
Progress: 97%
Location: New York City
Default

Thank you both for your replies. And thank you KoKo for taking the time to type all of that!

I followed caverjen's link and read that entire thread. I am still not convinced that there is anything wrong with ketosis. I think Scwarzbein is great and have read her first book and recommended it to a diabetic friend starting LCing, but I just don't think that her ketosis argument holds any water. This post says it better than I could:

Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen T
hi Deb,

I confess that I don't have SPII yet, so perhaps Dr. S. has addressed this elsewhere in her book. Just wanted to point out that yes, certain cells in the body lack mitochondria, which are necessary in order to use ketones in the Krebs (citric acid) cycle for energy. These cells require glucose instead.

I notice she uses the starvation model as her example In the case of a ketogenic diet, eg Atkins, or that used to treat epilepsy in young children, the person is consuming adequate protein in addition to the fat, and generally a minimal amount of carbohydrate too .. eg 20 grams. But even in the absence of any carbs from the diet, the liver will produce necessary glucose from proteins .. this is called gluconeogenesis. If the person is starving, then the liver will break down proteins from the body itself .. starting with recycled dead cells, etc, then muscle tissue. If adequate protein is consumed in the diet, then that is what will be used instead. So, even in the case of starvation, the body is never running 100% on ketones; there will always be a nominal amount of glucose being produced to supply those cells that need it.

It's a very long article, but if anyone has the time and is interested, this whole process is explained very well in Chuck Forsberg's Adiposity 101.

Doreen
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