I really shouldn't be responding here, as I said I would only reply to this in the low carb war zone. But I never made the initial post.



How is a CRer who has an average BMI of 19.6 [3] considered emaciated or in anyway relfective of being starved ? A BMI of almost 20 is absolutely considered normal and healthy (Normal healthy range BMI is between 18.5-25.). A CRONie does not meet the critera for anorexia at all. Some differences become apparent when you look at oxidative stress markers, inflammation, nutritional status, BMI, cholesterol levels etc... Anorexics will typically have

- Increased inflammation
- Increased oxidative damage
- Organ failure or disease at some point
- Elevated cholesterol levels
- A BMI below 16
- Deficiencies in many minerals
- Low antioxidant levels
- Orthostatic hyoptension
- Decreased immunity
- Increased DNA damage
- edema caused by starvation

In contrast a person who does CR will experience

- Increased antioxidant levels
- No nutrional deficiencies
- No organ failure
- No orthostatic hypotension (adaptational mechanism)
- Low Cholesterol levels
- No inflammation or very little inflammation (markers such as TNF-a, CRP, IL6)
- Better heart function, kidney function, and other organs [4]
- Improved viral immunity
- Decreased DNA damage [5]

Although there are similar things going on in anorexia and CR, the important thing is that CR(ON) extends lifespan in animals, anorexia in animals kills them. A big difference. Tell me, how is it that those animals, and rhesus monkeys that go on Calorie Restriction also live significantly longer lives. And they have "very low cholesterol" and are very thin. Two rhesus monkey studies on 30% CR relative to ad lib lived 30% longer[1, 2]. And yes, they had low total cholesterol! They had less cancer, no heart disease, no diabetes and slowed age related muscle mass and bone density decline. More significant CR rhesus monkey studies to come soon, one of them which is a true CR life extension study (and are very thin) is showing that 30% CR are experiencing half the mortality of the ad lib group. Preliminary evidence suggests that CRON in Rhesus monkeys is preventing loss of muscle mass, arthritis, menstrual irregularities, and other signs of aging.

If CRON was unhealthy then why are reports on humans coming out showing exactly what we want. Such as metabolic changes similar to those of long lived *humans* and long lived animals?



CR prevents dementia, does NOT cause weakness, is certainly SHOULDN't be filled with hunger, and does NOT produce erectile disfunction. In the large majority of CRers they do not go below the healthy BMI, and there is NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT CR WILL ONLY GAIN A PERCENT OF LIFE EXTENSION. These are symptoms of Calorie Restricted Inadequate nutrition diet. You are way too ignorant mutant, you will not even listen to those that ACTUALLY do CR. I think most people here are smart enough to actually understand that what mutant is saying is mostly not true and the average CRer is not experiencing these things. Maybe what he comes out with might even be based on his own failure? Your claims are an example of true starvation and inadequte nutrion studys done on animals and humans such as the Minnesota experiment [8] where they experienced Dizziness, tiredness, muscle soreness, hair loss, reduced coordination, and tinnitis. Whereas Calorie restriction in the biosphere two study did not show any of this, with calorie levels similar to that early experiment, and they even had increased level of activity! [9]. Also take note that NONE of the women experienced the menstrual irregularities. The level of restriction would have to be far more severe.

Also consider all the studies cited below which show that lower body mass index is associated with longevity and lower morbidity. CR lowers body temperature in humans, and in the study of men in the US showed that those with lower body temperature, high insulin sensitivity increase life expectancy significantly! [17] " On average, people who have a lower body temperature live longer, as do those with lower levels of insulin, and those with higher levels of DHEAS."

watch and listen to people that do CR http://cbs3.com/health/local_story_031211552.html - This is a very recent interview with a couple who both do CR. They say they feel so much better, and their sex life has improved.

REFERENCES

[1] Calorie restriction extends rhesus monkey lifespan by 30%
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=1634128

[2]Mortality and Morbidity in Laboratory-maintained Rhesus Monkeys and Effects
of Long-term Dietary Restriction. 30% CR got a 30% life extension
J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci 2003 Mar;58(3):B212-9

[3] Long-term calorie restriction is highly effective in reducing the risk for atherosclerosis in humans.
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2004 Apr 27;101(17):6659-63. Epub 2004 Apr 19.
PMID: 15096581 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/17/6659
"The CR group were leaner than the comparison group (body mass index, 19.6 ± 1.9 vs. 25.9 ± 3.2 kg/m2; percent body fat, 8.7 ± 7% vs. 24 ± 8%"

[4] Caloric restriction appears to prevent primary aging in the heart (in humans)
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...o-cra011206.php

[5] Calorie restriction appears better than exercise at slowing primary aging (in humans)
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...o-cra053106.php

[6] Low-Calorie Diet Boosts Immune System
Monkeys on calorie restriction have more youthful and robust immune systems.
http://www.technologyreview.com/BioTech/17856/

[7]Do Dieting Monkeys Live Healthier and Longer Lives?
http://www.technologyreview.com/BioTech/17572/

[8] They Starved So That Others Be Better Fed: Remembering Ancel Keys and the Minnesota Experiment
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/6/1347

[9] Calorie restriction in biosphere 2: alterations in physiologic, hematologic, hormonal, and biochemical parameters in humans restricted for a 2-year period.
J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 2002 Jun;57(6):B211-24.Click here to read
Four female and four male crew members, including two of the present authors (R. Walford and T. MacCallum)--seven of the crew being ages 27 to 42 years, and one aged 67 years--were sealed inside Biosphere 2 for two years. During seven eighths of that period they consumed a low-calorie (1750-2100 kcal/d) nutrient-dense diet of vegetables, fruits, nuts, grains, and legumes, with small amounts of dairy, eggs, and meat (approximately 12% calories from protein, approximately 11% from fat, and approximately 77% from complex carbohydrates). They experienced a marked and sustained weight loss of 17 +/- 5%, mostly in the first 8 months. Blood was drawn before entry into Biosphere 2, at many time-points inside it, and four times during the 30 months following exit from it and return to an ad libitum diet. Longitudinal studies of 50 variables on each crew member compared outside and inside values by means of a Bayesian statistical analysis. The data show that physiologic (e.g., body mass index, with a decrease of 19% for men and 13% for women; blood pressure, with a systolic decrease of 25% and a diastolic decrease of 22%), hematologic (e.g., white blood cell count, decreased 31%), hormonal (e.g., insulin, decreased 42%; T3, decreased 19%), biochemical (e.g., blood sugar, decreased 21%; cholesterol, decreased 30%), and a number of additional changes, including values for rT3, cortisol, glycated hemoglobin, plus others, resembled those of rodents or monkeys maintained on a calorie-restricted regime. Significant variations in several substances not hitherto studied in calorie-restricted animals are also reported (e.g., androstenedione, thyroid binding globulin, renin, and transferrin). We conclude that healthy nonobese humans on a low-calorie, nutrient-dense diet show physiologic, hematologic, hormonal, and biochemical changes resembling those of rodents and monkeys on such diets. With regard to the health of humans on such a diet, we observed that despite the selective restriction in calories and marked weight loss, all crew members remained in excellent health and sustained a high level of physical and mental activity throughout the entire 2 years.

PMID: 12023257 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[10] Body mass index and mortality among US male physicians.
Ann Epidemiol. 2004 Nov;14(10):731-9.
PURPOSE: To assess the relationship between body mass index and mortality in a population homogeneous in educational attainment and socioeconomic status. METHODS: We analyzed the association between body mass index (BMI) and both all-cause and cause-specific mortality among 85,078 men aged 40 to 84 years from the Physicians' Health Study enrollment cohort. RESULTS: During 5 years of follow-up, we documented 2856 deaths (including 1212 due to cardiovascular diseases and 891 due to cancer). In age-adjusted analyses, we observed a U-shaped relation between BMI and all-cause mortality; among men who never smoked a linear relation was observed with no increase in mortality among leaner men (P for trend, <0.001). Among never smokers, in multivariate analyses adjusted for age, alcohol intake, and physical activity, the relative risks of all-cause mortality increased in a stepwise fashion with increasing BMI. Excluding the first 2 years of follow-up further strengthened the association (multivariate relative risks, from BMI<20 to > or = 30 kg/m2, were 0.93, 1.00, 1.00, 1.16, 1.45, and 1.71 [P for trend, <0.001]). In all age strata (40-54, 55-69, and 70-84 years), never smokers with BMIs of 30 or greater had approximately a 70% increased risk of death compared with the referent group (BMI 22.5-24.9). Higher levels of BMI were also strongly related to increased risk of cardiovascular mortality, regardless of physical activity level (P for trend, <0.01). CONCLUSIONS: All-cause and cardiovascular mortality was directly related to BMI among middle-aged and elderly men. Advancing age did not attenuate the increased risk of death associated with obesity. Lean men (BMI<20) did not have excess mortality, regardless of age.PMID: 15519894 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[11] Body mass index and patterns of mortality among Seventh-day Adventist men.Int J Obes. 1991 Jun;15(6):397-406.
This study examines the relationship between body mass index (BMI) and 26-year mortality among 8828 nonsmoking, nondrinking Seventh-day Adventist men, including 439 who were very lean (BMI less than 20 kg/m2). The adjusted relative risk comparing the lowest BMI quintile (less than 22.3) to the highest (greater than 27.5 kg/m2) was 0.70 (95 percent CI 0.63-0.78) for all cause mortality, 0.60 (95 percent CI 0.43-0.85) for cerebrovascular mortality, and 0.80 (95 percent CI 0.61-1.04) for cancer mortality. Very lean men did not show increased mortality. To assess whether the protective effect associated with low BMI is modified by increasing age, the product term between BMI and attained age (age at the end of follow-up or at death) was included as a time-dependent covariate. For ischemic heart disease mortality, age-specific estimates of the relative risk for the lowest quintile relative to the highest ranged from 0.32 (95 percent CI, 0.19-0.52) at age 50 to 0.71 (95 percent CI, 0.56-0.89) at age 90. Interaction was also seen for the next lowest quintile (22.4-24.2). There was a significant trend of increasing mortality with increasing BMI for all endpoints studied. For cancer and cerebrovascular mortality the P-values for trend were 0.0001 and 0.001 respectively. For the other endpoints the P-values were less than 0.0001. Thus, there was no evidence for a J-shaped relationship between BMI and mortality in males. While the protective effect associated with the lowest BMI quintile decreased with increasing age for ischemic heart disease mortality, it remained greater than one at all ages. The relatively large number of subjects who were lean by choice, rather than as a result of preclinical disease or smoking, may explain these findings.PMID: 1885263 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


[12] Relationship between morbidity and body mass index of mariners in the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force fleet escort Force
To establish a practical weight management program for mariners in the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) Fleet Escort Force, the relationship between morbidity and body mass index (BMI) was studied. To estimate morbidity, 10 medical problems were used as indices (hyperlipidemia, hyperuricemia, diabetes mellitus, lung disease, heart disease, upper gastrointestinal tract disease, hypertension, renal disease, liver disease, and anemia). A curvilinear relationship was found between morbidity and BMI, in which a BMI of 17.5 was associated with the lowest morbidity. This curvilinear pattern was more complex than a curve reported previously for Japanese civilians. Using the present curve and aiming for a BMI of 17.5 will help in the design and implementation of a practical management program for health promotion in the JMSDF.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1101215


[13] NIHNC, CDC, & DHHS. (1985). Body weight, health and longevity: conclusions and recommendations of the workshop. Nutrition Reviews, February, 43(2), pages 61-3.
In 1985, the National Institute of Health, Centers for Disease Control, and the Department of Health and Human Services published a "special report" stating: "[S]tudies based on life insurance data, the American Cancer Society Study and other long-term studies, such as the Framingham Heart Study and the Manitoba Study, indicate that the weights associated with the greatest longevity tend to be below the average weights of the population as long as such weights are not associated with concurrent illness or a history of medical impairment.


[14] Lee IM. et al. (1993). Body weight and mortality. A 27-year follow-up of middle-aged men. Journal of the American Medical Association, December 15, 270(23), pages 2823-8.
In 1993, the Journal of the American Medical Association published a study that concluded: "In these prospective data, body weight and mortality were directly related. After accounting for confounding by cigarette smoking and bias resulting from illness-related weight loss or inappropriate control for the biologic effects of obesity, we found no evidence of excess mortality among lean men. Indeed, lowest mortality was observed among men weighing, on average, 20% below the US average for men of comparable age and height.

[15] Manson E. et al. (1995). Body wight and mortality among women. New England Journal of Medicine, September 14, 333(11), pages 677-85.
In 1995, a study published in New England Journal of Medicine concluded: "Among women who never smoked, the leanest women ... had the lowest mortality, and even women with average weights had higher mortality. Mortality was lowest among women whose weights were below the range of recommended weights in the current U.S. guidelines. Moreover, a weight gain of 10 kg of more since the age of 18 was associated with increased mortality in middle adulthood. These data indicate that the lowest mortality rate for U.S. middle- aged women is found at body weights at least 15 percent below the U.S. average for women of similar age.


[16] Solomon CG. (1997). Obesity and mortality: a review of the epidemiologic data. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, October, 66(4 Suppl), pages 1044S-1050S.
In 1997, the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition published a study on body weight and mortality stating: "We conclude that when appropriate adjustments are made for effects of smoking and underlying disease, optimal weights [for longevity] are below average in both men and women; this appears to be true throughout the adult life span.

[17] Scientists unravel secrets of long life
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2167316.stm