Low carbing has obviously made tremendous difference with my hypoglycemia....it's 1000x better.

I'm just wondering if anyone else out there has the same experience as me. I'm thinking I am really, really sensitive to carbs...any carbs....in my meals and snacks.

If I eat at VERY low carb levels, I experience true hunger in about 4-6 hours.

If I eat any more than about 8-10g carbs in a meal, within 2-3 hours I start to feel those mild hunger pains associated with my old hypoglycemic "episodes".... where I was prompted to eat something to keep my blood sugar stable. But I don't ever "crave" carbs...I just need/want a little protein & fat...like cheese or peanut butter.

And we all hear about people craving carbs all over this board. Do you think their "cravings" are kinda the same as my LBS hunger? Or are they two different things?

Does this make any sense to anyone but me??

I suffered from reactive hypoglyceamia for years - that awful "I have to eat now or I'm going to be ill" feeling, the moodiness the heachaches and anxiety attacks. It all stopped with LC, to the point that I forgot about it, forgot I'd even been 'that way'. Someone reminded me once and it was like "Oh yeah".

When I began eating more carbs for various reasons (weight lifting, trying a CKD, doing refeeds, carb ups and hitting maintenance) I was scared at first, I didn't want to experience that feeling ever again. I haven't. I think the LCing fixed the problem, put things back in balance so to speak, and the activity and the choice of carbs (low g.i. during the day and high g.i. after workingout) has kept that balance.

I guess my experience has been the opposite. But I still owe the corrected metabolism to LCing.

Nat

It may take some time, but I believe if you just stay with the LC WOE you'll stabilize, but you may have to keep your 'per meal' carb rate the same. I've found my CCL is about 30 grams total for the day. I follow Bernstein's recommendations and it works for me. He recommends: B'fast-6 grams or less. L & D 12 grams or less. If you snack, then subtract from L & D. *Sometimes* I can push that up a bit and sometimes I have to go to about 20/day, but by and large I try to stick to 30.

Hi TerriDoodle:

I can really relate to your problem. I get the same thing, which has been my frustration for some time now. I couldn't even call this reactive hypoglycemia because all the other nasty symptoms have disappeared, I just know I'm tired of being a slave to this hunger. I've tried to increase my carbs in the past and I binge from the false hunger.

Last night I had 10 grams of carbs in my meal (I treated myself to a Roasted Red Pepper sauce ), and the false hunger came on within an hour of eating. I wasn't craving carbs either, but if ever I have carb cravings coupled with false hunger, watch out. I binge out of control. Six grams/meal seems to be my limit. Not only that, I find if my fat intake isn't high enough, the false hunger returns. 75-80% seems to be ideal for me right now. What do you maintain you macronutrient percentages at?

Maybe it will just take us a little more time for our blood sugars to stabalize. Unfortunately, induction level carbs are what I have to deal with right now. I replied to your post about chromium picolinate but I don't know if you read it. I guess the chromium didn't help you?

I just started thinking about this. Maybe 5 meals of 6 carbs would be better than 3 meals of 6 carbs. I'm going to test that. I'm not much of a 5 meal/day person, but I'm curious how that would work cause then I'd be sneaking in an extra 12 grams/day. Have you done that? If so, how did it work?

I'd really like to hear about your progress on this issue because it seems to be a unique problem. I've searched Atkins site about it, but came up with nothing. Lots of stuff on sugar cravings though. Like you, I see them differently.

Wanda

Interesting thread. To me, 'cravings' are usually emotional, as in, "I'm grumpy - a hot fudge sundae would make me happy right now," or, "I have PMS, I need a bag of Oreos." LBS hunger is more physical - lightheadedness and stomach growling so much it almost hurts.

I'm glad I rarely deal with the latter anymore. (The former, sometimes. )

wcollier--Let us know how the 5 meals a day works for you....

Sorry, Wanda....I'm just now seeing your response.. I'm the same as you.... I usually have to have and adequate fat intake to keep the hunger at bay. I've been modifying my eating the last few days trying to get past a 4 month stall.... so now I"m trying to lower overall fat, keeping it below 60%. I have had turkey for snacks instead of cheese or nuts. Strangely, the turkey hasn't triggered hunger....but there's absolutely ZERO carbs there. Hmmm. I try to keep carbs below 30g, protein usually ends up 115g-140g.... calories I'm aiming for <1750. I almost always have to have a late afternoon snack; I simply cannot go 7 hours without eating.

My day looks like this:
Bkfst at 9:30 - 10 carbs
Hungry by 11:30, lunch at 12:00 or so... usually under 6-7g
Snack at 3:30 or 4:00 - under 3-4g
Dinner at 7:00 - under 10g - rarely hungry again after dinner, but it's my biggest meal.

I'd be more curious to see if you had a reaction from a pure protein snack ... like my turkey snack at mid-afternoon. More frequent meals are always recommended...and I think the extra carbs wouldn't hurt you. In my recent experience, it doesn't seem to matter if my carbs are 20/day or 45/day....weight stays the same

Actually, I do think it has helped....and I take it as faithfully as my memory will allow... 3-4x a day. I've heard it can take 8 weeks to really kick in...and that's about where I'm at now.

Hi TeriDoodle:

I'm so happy you replied. Ouch, a 4 month stall? I thought I was having a hard time shedding my Christmas weight gain. I've tried cutting down on my fat in the past like the Eades recommend, but I found myself bingeing from hunger. That was before fitday, so I'm going to try a few things and see what happens. I have to resist the urge to try something different everyday. Patience is a virtue, I have to tell myself.

This weighing myself everyday is very depressing. I don't know how people do that. But I really want to track everything on a day-by-day basis to see if there are any patterns. I increased my fat intake and noticed an immediate weight loss. But shortly after that my weight became very unstable. I'd gain and lose for no apparent reason. I've never seen my weight fluctuate like this before so I'm not sure what's causing it. I got my period yesterday, and if I look back to those fluctuations, they started the day I ovulated. So maybe it's been hormonal. I'll just have to wait and see.



2 things:
1) Re: protein: I think protein is kind of neutral for me. I don't think it causes blood sugar fluctations, but I don't think it makes me feel full enough on its own. Does that make sense? It will probably be my next set of tests.

In a moment of confusion, I posted to another thread about too much protein causing gluconeogenesis. I wondered if I was eating too much protein at dinner time, causing my hunger. That wasn't the case as it turned out.
Gluconeogenesis.

2) Re: snack - During the day, I don't feel the need to snack. I've learned over time that if I cut my carbs down to < 6 grams/meal during the day, I won't be hungry. Being hungry during the day is dangerous for me. This is always when binges start. So the best way is for me to feel very, very full. I can't accomplish that by eating many carbs. Having changed this part of my diet, at least I only have to deal with hunger after my dinner, which is the meal where I typically eat more carbs.

Having said all that, I have a real "hate" relationship with snacks. Hunger = snacks = feeling like a slave to food = loss of control. Get the idea? As silly as this sounds, snacking is associated with some really negative experiences for me. Psychologically, I seem to want to continue my life living on 3 meals a day.

My stats are:
fat - 70-79%
carbs - 2-5%
protein - 19-27%

Breakfast - 2-6g carbs
Lunch - 2-6g carbs
Dinner - 8-11g carbs
Bedtime snack - 1g carb

Foodwise, I don't eat many artificial foods. I try to make everything from scratch. I don't use artificial sweeteners. I try to avoid the "sweet taste" for fear of what could happen.

I also have to say, I'm very happy with the results of what I have learned. Coping with hunger after one meal is much better than after 3 meals. I haven't had the need to binge in 1 month now and that's really good for me. In fact, it might be a milestone. I'm learning new ways to make this WOE permanent. However, I FEEL SO GUILTY THAT I'M NOT EATING ENOUGH VEGETABLES. As an ex-vegetarian, I feel almost ashamed.

Luckily, I'm really into learning about and supplementing with vitamins and minerals so I'm not malnourished, but that's not really enough consolation.

OK, I've really swamped you with a long post, but I wanted to put everything out on the table. Maybe we can both come up with something.

I think I will also post an e-mail to Dr. Atkins website to see what they suggest. There are a couple of supplements he talked about for helping "hunger not assuaged by lipolysis". They are L-phenylalanine and N-acetyl-L-tyrosine before meals. Nutritional Solutions to Common Problems . The only thing is, I'm not sure if he is referring to false hunger. He must be. In his book, VitaNutrient Solutions, he states that when you stop taking phenylalanine, your appetite returns. His book doesn't mention N-acetyl-L-tyrosine as an appetite suppressant.

So I hope this has been informative and tell me what your thoughts are. Are we stuck eating induction level carbs for the rest of our lives or will we get past this?

Thanks,
Wanda

I definitely think you should email Atkins.... there's got to be a way for you to get more veggies in...that's always a good thing. I'd say that your blood sugar problems should heal after a year or so, but you've been at it longer than that! Maybe these supplements are the answer. I'd be curious what Atkins Center would say. Although it seems that you could also be well served by simply eating more meals spread throughout the day. You don't have a weight problem, but I understand your need to get hunger under control....it's so annoying!

VERY interesting glucogenesis thread! I've been worried about increasing my protein...but I really have too much to worry about already. For now I want to concentrate on lowering calories and fat.... perhaps I can adjust protein later....and raise what? Carbs? Jeez...it's never-ending.

How long have you been taking chromium? How much? I have just been learning to get past that initial false hunger....the one that signals me to eat "or else"....only to realize that the "or else" never comes. The hunger subsides for a while....and I can make it another hour or two sometimes...but for you it sounds as if it doesn't. I realize that the hunger is okay now.... it doesn't mean I'm going to crash.

2-3# weight fluctuations are normal for me and I learned a long time ago that it's okay....doesn't mean I'm getting fat again. It always drops back. Whew! I'm in perimenopause....totally weird cycles....14-30 days...I never know... I weigh every day just to keep a lid on things...I'd almost be comfortable throwing out the scale....ALMOST....but it's become a bit of a hobby! I don't let the number get to me.

You may also want to pop over to the vegetarian low carbers forum here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/forumdis...?s=&forumid=109

Hi KJTurner:

Was that link supposed to take me to a specific thread? I'm not sure what I should be looking at.

Wanda

Hi TerriDoodle:



I've been taking 200 mcg of chromium picolinate for about the last 3 weeks. Not really enough time yet to notice a difference.



That is really great that you are able to do that. For me, the false hunger isn't an "or else" thing. I'm past that fear of crashing, so I know my blood sugars are stable in that respect. But the false hunger, to me, is harder to ignore than true hunger. True hunger is just in my belly whereas this false hunger seems to consume every part of me. That sounds totally weird. One of my coping mechanisms in the past was that I could go a long time without eating. It was easier to not eat anything than to deal with the hunger after eating. That's probably the reason that I'm not obese today even though I've had a weight problem since I was 19. I have a twin sister who is obese so technically I should be the same way. But I was able to unhealthily maintain my weight through obsessive exercise and skipping meals (with the odd binge thrown in just to satisfy the false hunger Gods). It's why I really want to sort everything out. I've fought hard to regain my health (a whole other issue ), so normalizing my eating patterns is the last step to, I guess, self-fulfillment.

Anyway, I thought I'd post and tell you what I found. Being the obsessive/compulsive that I tend to be, , I separated each of my meals from fitday, then charted them on a bar graph. Very interesting results.

For dinner, not only were my carbs highest in proportion (nothing new there), but my fat intake was substantially lower at dinner than at any other meal. Even though I was getting my 70-79% fat per day, the numbers were all skewed. Furthermore, my protein intake was also highest at dinnertime (that didn't come as a surprise either).

Last night, I tested this theory. I made a chicken caesar salad. Instead of one serving of dressing, I added about 1/4 cup of dressing (56 grams of fat). That was the largest amount of fat I've eaten at dinnertime since I started using fitday. Well, I was so full all night I thought I'd be sick. That was good news. I even dropped 1/2 pound overnight even though I felt like I was carrying a full load in my stomach. Probably too much fat, but I made my point to myself. Even today, I'm finding I'm very full just from last night's dinner. I haven't eaten lunch yet (it's 3:12 pm) so I'm going to have to force the food down.

So I guess what I have to do is even my meals out a little. Distribute my fat and protein intake more evenly. This is very encouraging because I know that it's a start.

I tried contacting Atkins about that information but gave up after a substantial time on hold. If I e-mail them, who knows when I'll get a reply. I still haven't received a reply from a few weeks ago for another question I had. Maybe I'll try again later.

No, no particular thread, just the forum for low carbing vegetarians. I thought maybe you could get some good advice from them. I posted it in response to this comment:

"I also have to say, I'm very happy with the results of what I have learned. Coping with hunger after one meal is much better than after 3 meals. I haven't had the need to binge in 1 month now and that's really good for me. In fact, it might be a milestone. I'm learning new ways to make this WOE permanent. However, I FEEL SO GUILTY THAT I'M NOT EATING ENOUGH VEGETABLES. As an ex-vegetarian, I feel almost ashamed."

The folks who post there are really nice and I can tell they are *very* helpful for those who are trying to stay low carb, but stick to being vegetarian. Since you commented on being a former vegetarian I thought perhaps they could help you stay more in that lifestyle, (if that's what you were more comfortable doing) but still do the low carb thing.

Hi KJTurner:

I think my doctor would kill me himself if he learned I became vegetarian again. I was a bad vegetarian. I hate tofu so I have no right trying not to eat meat. I've come to terms with eating meat so I think I'm happy with the way things are for me. I'd just like to eat more veggies. I ate spinach salad for lunch today and got the false hunger (I usually only eat extra carbs for dinner). I thought I had things figured out and tried to add more veggies, but failed.

Boy, vegetarianism would add another complexity to this WOE. I'm glad they can come together to help one another out.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness,
Wanda

Hi. I have been following this and other lowcarber threads for several years now. I am severely hypoglycemic(my sugar went to 32 once) so I was looking for a way to get it under control. Went on lowcarb and felt great to begin with but as time went by I started feeling ill and when I upped my carbs I would get the hunger pangs and hypoglycemia symptoms. I was confused and upset. I never lost weight kept going up and down. Then I started veggies with good fats, eggs, a little dairy and lean protein. Ex. I will have broccoli with cheesesauce, a large veggie omelet, chicken with asparagus or any other veggies, cauliflower with parmesan cheese and butter sauce etc..u get the picture. So many things to make. Not only did I finally..finally halleluja,lose weight, but my hypoglycemia is under control, basically gone. When I'm hungry I fill up on veggies and protein..sometimes a little fruit. My energys great, my anxiety is gone...I think too extreme lowcarb made my too sensitive to carbs,,,I don't know..this feels right..been doing it three weeks, lost ten pounds...can't believe it..feel so good.not counting carbs but staying away from high gi foods...maybe this will help someone..I had to do something ..was so stuck on low carbing that I could see no other way..went off and on for years...never really lost or felt good..now I am..go figure????