Hi y'all,

I was fascinated to read the debate between Atkins and Ornish that was posted (the link) in one of the threads. What struck me was Ornish's claim that some complex carbohydrates caused a smaller insulin response than "roast beef". If true, I can see how there could be legitimate problems with some of Atkins claims.

I suspect however that we are not, as usual, doing a reasonable comparison. Is he comparing a readily available source of carbohydrates to a similarily available and palatable source of protein? I mean, after reading Ornish's speech I had to wonder if his patients in his study were eating the hotel linen.

Does anyone have any information on the glycemic profile that Ornish is talking about? I mean was he reffering to some unedible fibrous plant material that no human would ever want to eat, or are we comparing whole wheat pasta to roast beef?

I have to admit, I wasn't too impressed with Atkin's presentation. I think a little more allowance for uncertainty would have gone a long way...though his presentation was no less problematic than any of the others...

Finally, I would love to delve into some of the more problematic statements that Ornish loves...having just come back from Asia, the rice panacea, I would really like to have a crack at some of his epidemiological comparisons: NA vs. China or Indonesia for example. I mean, I guess poverty + seriously heavy labour would allow a population to consume as much carb as they could afford...and stay thin.

Cheers,

Jenn

Pick yourself up a copy of Protein Power LifePlan, Jen. They're not thinner and they're certainly not healthier. Rates of heart disease and stroke are higher than in NA.

I'm no expert when it comes to the biochemistry of LCing but I can tell you what I've read; the studies that state that protein causes insulin spikes were not done on individuals following LC plans; they were performed in the presence of carbs. In the abscence of carbs, excess protein will be convereted to glucose for use by the body and released slowly so as not to cause an insulin spike. Again, I suggest Protein Power or Protein Power Lifeplan. The Eades do a great job of explaining the hows and whys of LC in both layman's terms and scientific jargon.

As for the glycemic index; forget about it. It only works if you eat one thing at a time, it doesnt take into account that we tend to eat a combination of foods together.

Nat