" Eden Organic Black Soy Beans are both versatile and delicious! First, the best news –– a 1/2 cup serving of them offers up only 1 gram of bioavailable carbs (8 grams carbs minus 7 grams fiber!)To make a pot of chili with these beans boil good quality ground or minced beef (I use 1/2 lb ground chuck and 1/2 lb ground sirloin to get the best mix of lean and flavorful) with just enough water to cover. Reduce and add 1 cup beef broth (canned works fine) or 1/2 cup beef and 1/2 cup chicken broth. Reduce to half and add your favorite chili spices and low-carb tomato base Final step - add the beans and heat thoroughly. If you like your chili thick, reduce a bit more or add a pinch of Xanthan Gum or favorite thickener.

Don't confuse these with "Eden Black Beans" which are much higher in carbs. "

I can purchase these in the health food section of my local Supermarket but if you find that your local health food store/supermarket carries other "Eden" Products you can request that they order in the "Eden Organic Black Soy Beans" like I did.


Bonnie

hi everybody

If you look at the nutrient data, you'll see that the 8g carbs listed is in fact the full amount of digestible carbs. The fiber has already been subtracted.

You can plug the data into Wa'il's handy-dandy Hidden Carbs detector, or do the simple math -

Nutrient data from the Edenfoods.com website

per 1/2 cup serving -

calories: 120
calories from fat: 50
Total Fat: 6g
Total Carbohydrate 8g
Dietary Fiber 7g
Sugars 1g
Protein 11g

calculations posted here

This is a big problem, I'm noticing more and more that product labels are now PREsubtracting the fiber. You really have to be a detective. I've even noticed frozen and canned vegetables produced here in Canada are doing this.

Doreen

i hate to sound like a dummy, but i don't get the math. if you're left w/8g carbs, why not subtract the fibre? i don't understand what you're doing.
by the way, corinne netzer's figures are really different. for the same brand she's got per 1/2c: 90 cal, 9g protein, 9g carb, 1.5g fat, 5g fibre. how do we know what to believe? i've been taking corinne netzer's book as gospel!

This whole issue of declaring carbs and fiber and sugar and all ... is making my head spin. So much confusion, and do we subtract or don't we??. At the moment, the best we have to go by is to use the calorie count as the guide, and calculate the protein and fat .. and any calories leftover have t be considered carbs that contribute calories.

In this case, it "appears" that there are 8g carbs that contribute calories (or effective carbs as called in Protein Power). Since fiber does not contribute calories, I'm assuming then, that the beans provide 8g digestible carbs AND 7g fiber in addition. So instead of stating there's 15g carbs minus 7g fiber, they're listing them as separate entities.

Throw into that equation the fact that some manufacturers include fiber in the CALORIE count. **sigh**

I will email the Eden company, to find out the scoop. I would dearly love it if in fact my calculation is incorrect, and the beans really do have only 1g effective carbs. I've had the Eden black soybeans before and they're delicous, not soy-ey tasting at all.

Doreen

.. here is the email I received from Eden company about the soybeans. It appears that the 8g carbs they list is in fact the effective or digestible carbs, and the 7g fiber NOT included. The manufacturer has already subtracted the 7g fiber BEFORE calculating the calories, therefore should NOT be subtracted again. This is becoming more and more the norm ... in both Canada and the US. I have looked into the labelling requirements, and it seems that manufacturers are permitted to pre-subtract fiber, and there is no requirement for them to declare that they have done so on the label. They are only required to list both the carbs and the fiber in grams. It's up to the consumer to work out the calories.

**NOTE - apparently this is most often done with "high fiber foods", ie, the fiber content is 5g or more per serving of the product.

However, I have noticed things like generic branded frozen green beans ... you work out the prot/fat/carbs per the calories listed, and it works out that the fiber has already been subtracted. I wish there was some sort of consistency, but there's not.

I will continue to watch this closely, and will keep us all posted of anything new. In the meantime, it seems to be wise to do the math first -- don't just assume you can subtract the fiber grams from the total carbs to get the Effective Carb Count. Chances are the subtracting has already been done. This is especially of concern for diabetics who base their insulin dosages on carb intake.

Doreen

I get them at Kroger (grocery store) in the "organic foods" aisles and at my local health food store. I love the black soy beans for chilis and tacos, etc. They're just 1 carb per half cup.

hi Livvy,

Actually, the fiber has already been subtracted, so those beans have 8g per half-cup, not 1g.

We had a discussion about this previously; you might want to check out this thread.

Even so, 8g isn't bad for OWL and higher carb levels, and they do taste good. Makes great chili.

Doreen

Thanks so much Doreen. That's really frustrating -- I had no idea, having never learned how to doublecheck carb counts. I'll have to learn how to do this, and do it in the future. Thanks again.

Hey Doreen, it looks like the net carbs on half a cup of the black soy beans is just 1 net carb. I got some new info after I told another friend about this on another site. Your email from Eden said that they do not include fiber in their calorie count. That means it hasn't been counted, and you can still subtract it. Here's the email that we got from them when we asked for a clarification:
Dear Bonnie,

Thank you for contacting Eden Foods and your interest in Eden Foods.
The carbohydrates that we report on our label are taken directly from the testing lab reports. The lab does not make any adjustment to the carbohydrate figure as it may relate to fiber. In fact, they are unable to deduct fiber from the carbs to end up with such a small carb number. So, we can assure you that our label lists true carbohydrates, not a "net number".

If you should have any further questions, please contact Customer Service.

Sincerely,

Sandra K Baker
Customer Service
Eden Foods
800.248.0320
517.456.7424
Fax: 517.456.7025
www.edenfoods.com


Hurray! Hope that helps. We all still need to be on the lookout for pre-subtracted fiber though, as that may be a new trend. Thanks!

Liv

Here's the email sent to me way back in August 2001, when I inquired about this (from the thread I linked to in my message above here):
The Dietary Fiber of 7g that you see listed on the Nutrition Panel is not included in the amount of calories listed It has been pre-subtracted before calculating the calories contributed by protein, fat and carbohydrate.

From Livvy's email in the post above: .. So, we can assure you that our label lists true carbohydrates, not a "net number Exactly --- the 8 grams of carbohydrate are true carbs that contribute calories.


Let's look at the nutrient data from the label ... it's also posted at the Eden Foods website ..

• 
  per 1/2 cup serving
  
  calories: 120
  calories from fat: 50
  Total Fat: 6g
  Total Carbohydrate 8g
  Dietary Fiber 7g
  Sugars 1g
  Protein 11g

According to our Hidden Carbs Inspector, which is based on the USDA database and nutrient values, Legumes and Soy products yield the following caloric values per nutrient:

carbohydrate - 4.04834 calories per gram
fat - 8.39772 calories per gram
protein - 3.50036 calories per gram

So, for the Eden soy beans:

6g fat x 8.39772 = 50.386 calories .. and indeed, they declare 50 calories from fat

11g protein x 3.50036 = 38.504 calories

50.386 + 38.504 = 88.89 calories from fat and protein

120 - 88.89 = 31.11 calories that MUST come from digestible carbs

31.11 ÷ 4.04834 = 7.684 grams of digestible carbs, rounded up to 8g

The Eden black soy beans contribute 8 grams of digestible carbs per ½ cup serving. 8 g that are absorbed, contribute caloric energy and affect blood sugar and insulin levels.

The fiber listed on the label has been pre-subtracted. Do not subtract it again.

hth,

Doreen

For further information, you might want to have a read through the USDA's FAQ's about food composition analysis .. http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodco...letins/faq.html

In particular this section:This clearly indicates that high fiber foods will often have the fiber pre-subtracted before calculating calories.

hth,

Doreen

Fiber is ALWAYS counted as 0 Calories. It is sometimes pre-subtracted from grams and sometimes not.

((Calories - Fat Calories) - (Protein * 4))/4 = Net Carbs

((120 - 50) - (11 * 4))/4
(70 - 44)/4
26/4
6.5g Net Carbs

((119 - 51) - (12 * 4))/4
(68 - 48)/4
20/4
5g of Net Carbs (Minimum)

((121 - 49) - (10 * 4))/4
(72 - 40)/4
32/4
8g Net Carbs (Maximum)

The Fiber has therefore has to have been pre-subtracted. Not only did they pre-subtract the Fiber, but all their other numbers (Fat, Calories, and Protein) have been rounded down.

Woah ... back up! You're all thinking too hard. Fiber has ZIP to do with calories. Basically, what the label is saying that there are 8g of carbs, and 7 of those grams are fiber.

And where did that calculation for net carbs come from? Never seen that before. Doreen's calculation are the accepted form of determining calories and helping you find the hidden carbs (if it doesn't all add up, then you know they aren't disclosing the carbs properly on the label ... they (manufacturers) are required to be very accurate with protein/fat) YET, it only gives us total carbohydrates. No way to determine what part of that is soluable or insoluable fiber - that's what we depend on the manufacturer to give us on the label. That FAQ from the USDA is interesting, but extremely vague, IMO. Perhaps that's how you end up with the missing carbs, when they do deduct the fiber first. In this case, as Doreen's calculations prove ... no hidden carbs!

So based on the letter from Eden Soy:

Dear Bonnie,

Thank you for contacting Eden Foods and your interest in Eden Foods.

The carbohydrates that we report on our label are taken directly from the testing lab reports. The lab does not make any adjustment to the carbohydrate figure as it may relate to fiber . In fact, they are unable to deduct fiber from the carbs to end up with such a small carb number. So, we can assure you that our label lists true carbohydrates, not a "net number".

If you should have any further questions, please contact Customer Service.

Sincerely,

Sandra K Baker
Customer Service
Eden Foods
800.248.0320
517.456.7424
Fax: 517.456.7025


Both of the emails sent to Eden Foods asked 2 different questions - one was whether the fiber was in the calories (it's not) and the other was whether the fiber was deducted from the carbs. (it hasn't been). Case closed!

No. What the label is saying, and the emails clarified, is that the 8 grams does not include the fiber. If the Eden company HAD chosen to include the fiber in the total carb count, what it would've read is:

• Total Carbohydrate 15g
  Dietary Fiber 7g

Instead, they have (accurately) listed those items as separate entities on the label. The beans provide 8 grams of carbohydrate that contribute calories, raise blood sugar and trigger insulin. Not 1g.

This tells us that one half of the carbohydrate content is fiber. But, if you believe that the Eden soybeans are 8g carbs of which 7g is fiber .. that would mean the fiber is ... 87.5% of the total carbs?? Doubtful. The starch that is found in all soybeans does not disappear in the canning process.

Another thing to remember is that the Eden black soybean product isn't just soybeans and water. It also contains kombu seaweed, which adds a small amount of carbohydrate of its own.

~~~~~~

The importance of understanding the accurate effective (net) carb content in this product is of paramount importance to diabetics, in particular those persons who calculate their pre-meal insulin dose based on the carbs they believe are in the meal they're about to eat.


hth,

Doreen

Actually, it does have something to do with calories. When the calories for a food are determined, it is done by burning the product and measuring how much energy it gives off. Fiber burns over a flame, but can't be digested by our bodies because we lack certain enzymes to do so. Based on that, Eden has pre-subtracted both the calories and the fiber that can't be digested, so the actual carb count is 8 grams per serving. I made the same mistake a few weeks ago until I did the math and realized I was wrong.
Still...8 grams per serving isn't too bad for OWL or later phases and I like the taste better than kidney beans for chili.