Karen, you've said on a couple of occasions that you've given up or cut back on dairy (cheese, cream etc?). Just like to get clarification as I use fair amt of dairy as part of, supplement to dailyprotein, fat intake. Did you give up dairy b/c of your own body/psych response to it (i.e. whipped cream leads to whipped cream in quantity), or is there a general metabolic thing related to dairy that screws ketosis up? I know cheese is named as a potential stall inducer for some people. Trying to clarify picture for myself.

but I can tell you that many people have problems with dairy because of the hormones, women in particular. I read this thread not that long ago and found it very eye opening.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...=&threadid=4291

Nat

Both. I found myself wanting too much whipped cream, and whipped cream usually goes with berries, or cocoa and AS. I have been off the dairy free wagon since the end of the study and I'm loathing myself for it because I created a rule, and broke it. One day off, one day on...

When I was eating it on a regular basis, my throat would swell - this was only after being LC for a long time - and I would be constantly swallowing. It also makes my tongue tingle or feel itchy. So I concluded that it probably wasn't a good thing for me to keep eating.

I've also been down on dairy for a while without actually practicing what I think. We're the only species that continues to drink milk after we're weaned. And, we drink it from another animal, not even remotely related to our species. Cow milk is used to turn calves into big, beefy cows and bulls, so what is it doing to us?

Lemme know what you think!

Karen

That was a very interesting and informational thread you lead me to. Doreen does raise an interesting question. Why would beef fat and cow milk fat have diff effects on the bod? (her ref to comparison between effects of 8oz steak vs 3 oz of cheese).

Karen, you said

>It also makes my tongue tingle or feel itchy. So I concluded that it probably >wasn't a good thing for me to keep eating.

Sounds like something in your bod reacts to milk. Don't know anything about allergies, but the itching and swelling must mean something. I'm not strongly or even weakly considering being dairy free (unless some clear evidence comes down) because it's one of the things makes this woe okay for me. It compensates psychologically for the absence of pasta and bread, and it's one of the quick foods when I'm too tired to prepare meat, or just don't feel like eating something so challenging to stomache. Something about mean being too chewy and intense--probably its protein intensity. Like all of us, I'll continue to fiddle with foods and pay attention to how my particular body reacts. I think I'm not actually an addict or I am in a very specific way. I don't seem to have too much trouble with portions getting out of control (at least in my daily life) i.e. some cream or cheese doesn't lead to desire for more. I seem to have an inner physical cut off that limits splurging for that kind of thing. But I did have a wild blood sugar ride when I was eating carbs before this wol that caused me to eat way too much bread, potates etc. For me those kind of carbs just lead to OD carbing.

I think dairy is a 'your mileage may vary' thing. I've been cutting way back on cheese, cream, etc. because I can't stop at just a bit. I'm close enough to goal weight where I don't think I can lose if I eat too many calories - I don't mean I have to starve myself - but I need to be aware of not eating way over the limit. I can easily scarf down 500 calories worth of cheese and cream at a sitting, in addition to my three squares a day!

I remember also, when my daughter was small, there was a lot of discussion going around about goat's and sheep's milk being better for kids than cow's milk. Apparently it's easier to metabolize. Something to do with the size of the fat molecules? Also less likelihood of allergies. I don't remember the details, but it might be worth looking into.

Rachel

I don't think I could handle the LC WOL without dairy! I feel bad for you, Karen although I bet you can whip up wonderfully yummy things without dairy. Everyone's body is so different.

I have asthma and was told that it was dairy induced by my doc. But, I'm off my steriod inhaler and have only had to use my albuterol inhaler when I got around someone wearing purfume since I've been on the Atkins diet. And trust me, I am eating lots of wonderful whipped cream! I use the organic kind because it doesn't have the nasty chemicals in it. Sometimes I eat it right after I whip it and sometimes I freeze it. Yum! That's my treat!

Cheese is my thing. But it's only okay if I am on a regular regimen of excercise. I guess if one excercises regularly dairy could be less of a problem. Nothing like garlic shrimp with a little homeade alfreado sauce on them. Slashing the pasta of course.

Exactly! There is psychology at work here. If you substitute one product for another, you're still addicted IMHO. The ideal - for me anyway - is to be entirely free psychologically from any attachment to food. It's just fuel, but it has turned into so much more than that.

And Kathy, you don't have to feel bad for me. I made a choice, and every day without a dairy fix, is a day of liberation for me.

No one has commented so far on humans ingesting a substance designed for calves. Wonder why that is?

Karen

Hmmm. Why is the grass green? Why is the sky blue?

Could it be because we humans do all kind of things that defy the laws of nature? No other creature puts a seed into the ground intentionally, nurturing and caring for it till it reaches its peak of growth .. and then chops it down or yanks it out of the ground .. and devours it. No other creature puts a seed in the ground, nurtures and cares for it till the flower blooms ... then does nothing but sit back to admire its beauty.

No other creature cooks its food, or combines several different foods into one in order to create a new food.

It seems that early cultures that relied on dairy foods .. didn't drink the liquid milk as a rule .. but fermented and preserved it thus rendering it suitable for longer storage. So, cheese was born purely out of practicality ... here's a food that can sustain life ... and it's portable, and keeps a long time without refrigeration.

Of course, then we move ahead a couple of millenia, and I find myself at a loss to explain the purpose of Brie, Port du Salut or Gjetost .. other than they taste good ..

Doreen

This is a really interesting discussion!

What I've been struggling with my whole life, and continue to struggle with on low-carb, is using food for comfort when I'm tired/stressed/bummed out. This usually happens in the evening. What I do is retreat to the 'safety' of my sofa with a good book and a plate or two of .... something. Used to be chips and chocolate, now it's nuts, cheese, sliced ham, homemade low carb chocolate, etc. I know it's psychological, not hunger, and low-carb has reduced the tendency, but I can't seem to shake it! The best thing I can do is not have those 'trigger' foods in the house, which means, recently, not buying cheese. I know portion control is the key, but that's my downfall - so in the meantime, zero is best.

Rachel

And so do lots of other things in the "moving ahead a couple of millenia" department...

Macaroni and cheese, artisanal bread slathered with butter, Hagen Dazs ice cream, pineapples in Mexico, dacquoise with toasted almond buttercream, pizza, sushi, Lindt chocolate, hamburgers, Smart Food cheese popcorn, mangoes in Thailand...



Karen

...oh, and Ruth's piece of marble cheddar!

Karen,

Stop teasing me! You're making me drool and the piece of marble cheddar I was going to snack on just doesn't appeal like your little list.

Ruthie

It's been added!

You are drooling and I feel like barfing...

Speaking of keeping it out of the house, I tried Faux Carrot Cake #3 today and it was the worst one. #2 was the best so far, and the leftovers from it left the house last night. I had, well let's say more than one piece of #3 and then threw the sucker in the garbage. I am what you would call, a slow learner.

The pumpkin pie however, is looking grand. I'll post the recipe later.

Karen

Charles, thanks for the recipe (Cajun Shrimp Alfredo )! We have moved it into the recipe section here:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthre...&threadid=22189

Wa'il