I have just noticed that the daily multivitamin I take had 100% RDA of vitamins A and D. The cod liver oil capsule I take also has 100% RDA of vitamins A and D.

Recently I started a fitday acount and I've noticed that I often manage 100% RDA of vitamins A and D even without the suppliments.

I know these two vitamins can be toxic if taken too excess. Am I in any danger on these doses?

Robert

There is that potential.

Excerpt from:
http://www.supplementwatch.com/supa....asp?letter=All

Be aware that as a fat-soluble vitamin, vitamin A can be stored in the body and levels can build up over time. Possible toxicity can result with high dose supplementation (50,000 IU/day) leading to vomiting, headaches, joint pain, skin irritation, gastrointestinal distress and hair loss. Extreme caution should be exercised during pregnancy, as high dose vitamin A has been associated with teratogenic effects (birth defects) on the fetus of pregnant women. Maximum intake of 5000 IU of vitamin A is suggested during pregnancy. See below in Value for information about the link between vitamin A and bone fractures.

Because vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, it is stored in the body and has the potential to reach toxic levels if taken in high doses for prolonged periods of time. Intakes over 1000IU (nearly 3 times the daily value) can cause nausea, diarrhea, skin rash, headaches, muscle weakness, calcium deposits and kidney stones. Prolonged sunlight exposure does not cause buildup of vitamin D as the body down-regulates its production when body levels are adequate.

You may want to switch over to an EPA/DHA supplement instead of cod liver oil. Studies have shown enormous health benefits and you needn't worry about A & D as it contains none.

There have been many posts on the subject. Check the Fish Oil Caps - YUCK thread, pages 2 & 3.

Thank you ZoneCoach,

Thats the fish oil capsules heading for the dustbin! I will look for an EPA/DHA suppliment.

What about flax oil? Does that contain A and D? Does it contain EPA/DHA's any info would be appreciated.

Oh, I take an evening primrose oil capule everyday too. Should I throw this one away too?

Thanks
Robert

You're welcome

They are generally labeled as some sort of Fish Oil. Look at the ingredient list for EPA & DHA
EPA (Eicosapentaenoic acid)
Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is one of several omega-3 fatty acids used by the body. Our main dietary sources of EPA are cold water fish
DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid)
Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is an omega-3 fatty acid that is essential for the proper functioning of our brains as adults. Lack of sufficient DHA may be associated with impaired mental and visual functioning as well as attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) in children. Low levels have also been associated with depression and Alzheimer's disease in adults.
There are good fats and there are bad fats. Artificially produced trans-fatty acids are bad in any amount and saturated fats from animal products should be kept to a minimum. The best fats (oils) are those that contain the essential fatty acids so named because without them we die. Essential fatty acids (EFAs) are polyunsaturated and grouped into two families, the omega-6 EFAs and the omega-3 EFAs.
Omega 3 & Omega 6 - Seemingly minor differences in their molecular structure make the two EFA families act very differently in the body. While the metabolic products of omega-6 acids promote inflammation, blood clotting, and tumor growth, the omega-3 acids act entirely opposite. Although we do need both omega-3s and omega-6s it is becoming increasingly clear that an excess of omega-6 fatty acids is not desirable. Many scientists believe that a major reason for the high incidence of heart disease, hypertension, diabetes, obesity, premature aging, and some forms of cancer is the profound imbalance between our intake of omega-6 and omega-3 fatty acids. Our ancestors evolved on a diet with a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 of about 1:1. The change in dietary habits over the last few centuries has changed this ratio to something closer to 20:1
The main sources of omega-6 fatty acids are vegetable oils such as corn oil and soy oil that contain a high proportion of linoleic acid. Omega-3 acids are found in flaxseed oil, walnut oil, and marine plankton and fatty fish. The main component of flaxseed and walnut oils is alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) while the predominant fatty acids found in fatty fish and fish oils are eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). The most beneficial and active of these fatty acids are EPA and DHA. Alpha-linolenic acid can be converted to EPA and DHA in the body, but the conversion is quite inefficient.

Omega-3 fatty acids fall into two major categories: Plant derived (flax seed oil, yielding alpha linolenic acid or ALA) or marine derived (fish oil, yielding both EPA and DHA). The human conversion of ALA to EPA and DHA is inefficient and can be inhibited by various conditions such as a diet high in linoleic acid (Omega-6), trans-fatty acids such as fast foods and baked goods, alcohol intake, certain health conditions, and vitamin and mineral deficiencies (B3, B6, C, zinc, magnesium). Fish, on the other hand, is a direct source of EPA and DHA . The general consensus is that only about 15% of ALA converts to EPA, and it may not convert to DHA at all. And, no, Flax seed oil does not contain A or D. If you choose to supplement with flax, use the oil with lignans for the added fiber benefit or use ground flax seeds. Whole flax seeds do little more than add fiber since they basically pass through the digestive system unchanged.


My first question would be; why are you taking it? I am not aware of any potential harm, however, you may be wasting your money. Evening primrose oil is a source not only of linoleic acid but also of another kind of fatty acid called gamo-lenic acid (also known as gamma linolenic acid, or GLA). This fatty acid, normally manufactured by the body from linoleic acid, is important in many ways. It is transformed by the body eventually into eicosanoids, hormone-like chemicals that include the prostaglandins. The latter control such processes as inflammation, blood clotting, and cholesterol synthesis.
Since the body produces its own GLA, why consume it in evening primrose oil? Consuming oatmeal (especially the less processed stuff such as steel-cut) also increases GLA in the body.

Wow, what a conprehensive reply! thank you so much. I have some flax seed oil - I originally bought it to push up the amount of fats in my diet but now I see it is of some other nutritional use.

I bought the evening primrose because they were on offer and I had some vague idea about them being good for you!

I'm moving back to the UK soon and I'll be in a good position to find a good EPA & DHA suppliment.

The only other oil/fat I use is olive oil which I believe is neither omega 6 nor 3?

Once again thank you.

Robert

Dear Robert,

I recently joined Fitday on July 27, 2003 and have the same type of concerns you do. Only the nutrients I am ODing on are Vitamin C and quite a few others.

I read some article that taking too much Vitamin C (article said 100 mg daily) leads to mental confusion over a period of time. It got that right!

At the same time I have trouble meeting the RDA for Vitamin D*, zinc, magnesium and calcium. *The sun and I haven't been out together in awhile either. Raining here in NC.

I take a multivitamin supplement but started hesitating after seeing most of my nutrients were over 100%.

I'll get to the point--is it only your supplements that are driving you over the limit? How do you get Vitamin D--seems the fortified foods are pastries, breads, crackers (carbs) and milk (too much saturated fat) ?

Attached is my fit-day food link. If anyone can help, let me know.

Thanks!!!

Jeanne
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/Public...?Owner=jeanne48

Dear jeanne48,

It is very difficult to OD on vitamin C. I take 1000mg a day plus 60mg in my mutli vitamin plus whatevet I eat. Vitamin C is water soluable so if you eat too much you just pee it out!

Vitamins A and D are fat soluable and can cause problems as the body cannot take very large amounts.

I have now thrown the cod liver oil capsules away and now take fish oil capsules which don't have it in.

Thanks, Robert--I really appreciate the assurances. What is it? Take C and P.

I read on the internet recently (while trying to determine the overdose values) that too much vitamin C can interact with iron and cause us to RUST! Also a Florida study said about the mental confusion thing. I am confused!!

However, are the fish oil capsules where you get most of your Vitamin D? Or do you drink get Vitamin D naturally? If so, how? I'm obviously missing something on this diet that, along with calcium, could cause my bones to creak, break and freak.

Thanks again. Good luck on your move back to UK.


Jeanne48

Dear Jeanne48,

I take a regular multi vitamin every day which contains 100% of the RDA of Vitamin D. I also have cream and sour cream and cheese in my diet all of which contain vitamin D along with natural calcium.

You don't need much exposure to sun to top up the vitamin D by the way.

I don't know what plan you are following but on Atkins you don't worry about saturated fats. With regard to the minerals, there is no reason why you shouldn't take mineral suppliment.

Good luck

P.S. What kind of diet are you on? I've just looked at your fitday and it doesn't look very low carb.

Dear Robert,

Thanks once again for your answer and some Atkins' diet tips I was not aware of. That would solve my problem with Vitamin D.

Yesterday's diet was a bit unusual for me (biscuit w/white flour). To me low carbing is eating less carbs and no white flour. I get carbohydrates on the fruits I eat and I eat oat & nut bread (one or two slices). My saturated fats, most specifically the polyunsaturated fats (good if enough omega 3s and bad if too much omega 6s) and monounsaturated fats are my real goals. Generally, they are pretty good (higher than yesterday). My cholesterol averages out to 750 something.

I'm on this diet (Atkins-inspired but not Atkins) to straighten out my cholesterol and triglycerides, as well as to lose a few pounds. I chose the Redbook diet as a fast turnaround before my doctor's appointment two weeks later. I needed a drastic change and this was a change--I have always eaten protein but loved carbohydrates even more.

I did bring down my cholesterols (unfortunately HDL went down, too, and kept the same inverse relationship to my LDL). The best improvement was in my tri's - went down 70 points.

My doctor when he first heard I went on low carb grew very concerned. He was afraid my kidneys would shut down and that my cholesterol would go sky high. I haven't seen him yet to know his reaction on my lowered cholesterol figures.

I did feel the diet in my kidneys and saw some signs of malabsorption(?), although I drank a lot of water and diluted cranberry juice during those two weeks. I continue with the water.

However I had no headaches except the ones before this diet that told me I was eating too much "sugar" -- I like bread better than I do candy even growing up. Spaghetti is something special to me, too. And apple pie!

The two-week phase is over and I am winging it on my own and apparently I have lots to learn. Losing is easy -- maintenance will be much harder.

Sorry, this got longer than I wanted it to be. Will try to get those creams in. Already eat cheese. Will look for some of those supplements.

Thanks again.

Jeanne48

Hi. I am concerned about the hair loss issue, and I've read that overdosing on Vitamin A can cause it.

My question is, "How much is TOO much?"

I'm currently at 546% DV.

BTW, be aware that there are TWO forms of Vitamin D. D2 is called ergocalciferol and can build to toxicity. D3 is called cholecalciferol and has been shown to be tolerable and healty even at doses of 1200 iu. (300% DV).

The vitamin D in milk is D3.

Vitamin A as beta carotene also does not have the toxicity effect that the non beta carotene form does.

BTW, hair loss is also a big-time symptom of a possible thyroid problem, so if hair loss is an issue, you may wish to investigate thyroid as well.

75% of the Vitamin A from my multi-vitamin is from Beta-carotene.

And that makes up the majority of my Vitamin A, so I guess I don't have to worry about that anymore.

I doubt I have a thyroid problem, but luckily I just got some blood work done which will check for thyroid issues.

Fridayeyes...do you know of any other vitamins (in excess) that will cause hair loss?

Besides Vitamin A, I've also read of Vitamin E, selenium and iron. But, again...the question is always how much is too much? I'd preferably like to know in daily value percentages.

I am more aware of deficiencies causing hair loss than excess, e.g iron deficiency. Your iron was only 92%, so I wouldn't worry about iron. Selenium - keep it to 100 mcgs. Vitamin E - I have never heard of toxicity probs. Caveat: I am not a vitamin expert. What I know, I know because of depletion issues associated with hypoT.

BTW, when you get your tests back, come post 'em in the thyroid section and we'll double check that everything is ok. Sometimes 'normal' isn't.

Edit: my hair loss stopped within a week of going on thyroid meds. I am not noticing regrowth yet, but it's only been a month. I also had significant breakage in addition to hair loss.

The basis of RDA vitamins/supplements is the amount that will keep you from getting a deficiency disease. Thus usually 100% of RDA is still too little to be healthy on. Many studies on vitamins have been done and the ROD (Recommended Optimum Dose) is usually many times greater than the RDA.

Robert
It's interesting that there is a crisis of vitamin D deficiency in England and other northern countries. Further, you need 4000 IU of vitamin D from all sources, including the sun to be healthy. Too, they've found that winter sun above the 33 paralell is not adequate for vitamin D production and that summer sun in these places is not strong enough to ensure adequate vitamin D either.

Also it's a fallacy and one of those scientific lies about vitamin D toxicity that just gathers strength and becomes truth the more it gets repeated. Man-made vitamin D, D2 has been found toxic at 20,000 IU/day where natural vitamin D, D3 has been found safe at doses of 50,000 IU/day. That safety was proven with a study that covered four years.

Coincidently, man-made vitamin A has also been found toxic at 20,000 units/day while natural vitamin A has been found safe at 35,000 units/day. Further, it's been found that vitamin D buffers vitamin A potency so that a larger amount is safer when taken in conjunction with vitamin D.