Yesterday I did my cardio--or should I say tried to do my cardio as normal (day three of Induction) and ten minutes into walking flat out on my treadmill I had calf cramps (horrendous) and had problems with my Weight lifting session which I go into depth about below. However, it got me thinking about the cramps and obviously this is the lack of calcium and potassium. I rectified the potassium and am taking around 340mg caclium per day in total. Recommended daily average is about 1000mg from some sources I read. I know a little about calcium absorption though and curiosity got the better of me. So I searched and surfed for an hour and read an article which this excerpt is extracted from. I continue below:

"Ketosis is a medical condition that occurs when fat is partially broken down into by products called ketones. In a "normal" diet, which is composed of reasonable percentages of protein, carbohydrate and fat, glucose calories become protein-sparing calories. In this manner, the carbohydrate consumed is adequate for all tissues and organs, including the brain and red blood cells to function.


During periods of starvation, when carbohydrate intake has been limited and glucose levels are low, organs and tissues, as well as the brain and red blood cells, get glucose from other sources. The liver has the ability to make glucose from non-carbohydrate sources. This process is called gluconeogenesis.


When other organs are asked to produce glucose over an extended amount of time, they can become weakened. Fat can also be used as a source of glucose. However, fat is not broken down completely, creating byproducts called ketone bodies. The composition of ketone bodies is acidic.


Using ketones as a source of energy is inefficient and will disrupt the acid/base balance in the body, which can lead to other health problems. Additionally, high protein foods, such as animal meats, are also very acidic in nature. The acidic environment present within the body can interfere with basic minerals that are also in the body, more specifically calcium. There is a high probability that the body will lose calcium if one chooses to follow this diet plan. Not only is osteoporosis a threat, but cardiac functions can also be hindered."

I see that Vitamin D is responsible for helping the body retain calcium in the body. We would normally get vitamin D from fish oils that we eat or from something like Cod Liver Oil. I take x2 capsules of this per day and always have. However, my query was that in a state of ketosis, if the gut or body is in an acid state--even if you took large calcium supplements would this really be absorbed by the bones or body anyway. On the Atkins diet for example we are allowed to eat cheese and take cream to a certain extent. I would have thought that these two sources alone would be adequate were calcium needs are concerned. Especially when the diet is so limited that often people on it will consume MORE cheese or cream than they would if they were not on the diet. However, we are still advised to take a calcium supplement (amongst all others) as it is well understood that ketosis upsets calcium absorption.

My concern is---even if you take a large proportion of calcium in the way of tablet form supplements on the Atkins diet, due to the poor absorption because of ketosis, it is my understanding that it may not be absorbed anyway and is therefore rebuffed onto the kidneys for excretion. The conditions have to be right within the body for calcium to be laid in bones. So even if you bombard yourself with high supplements could this not basically cause kidney problems in that sense is the question I asked myself? Also that due to the chemical balance in Ketosis in fact calcium in the bones starts to be leeched and excreted also?

I have already mentioned that my son is on steroids. So I know a great deal about bone density and calcium deficiency and the role that high cortisol levels play in leeching calcium from the bones. I have never given him calcium supplements, because the levels of cortisol dictate exactly how much calcium can be absorbed by the bones or body anyway and generally an excess is excreted by the kidneys and therefore this is the reason why elevated levels of cortisol basically canabilize the bones. That and the fact that it suppresses dhea's which are useful in helping to reverse this process. It also canibilizes muscle in the process and that is why so many people who are stressed with raised cortisol levels over a prolonged period of time or whom are on steroids are particularly prone to low bone mineral density if they are given high doses above the body's normal needs. Is the same not true them of a body that is in a continuous state of ketosis and acidic? I know that if I gave a calcium supplement to my son when he is over treated it would be a complete waste of time as the balance of hormones will just not allow it to be laid in the bones and it is all rebuffed onto the kidneys and excreted. Hence why many get kidney stones when taking steroids. So when I am thinking in depth about problems that can occur for him I am asking myself what difference is it when Ketosis can actually effect the same problem? I am concerned that even the calcium in the extra supplements that I take or anyone else takes during Induction is not really being laid in bone but all peed out due to the level of ketosis.

I doubt that many adults have had bone density readings on this diet. My son had one earlier this year. Is bone density was just under the average for his age, but then he is on relacement supposedly only. though sometims they over shoot the mark--they can also undershoot it and on those occasions he makes all the anabolic steroid in higher amounts (in fact can enter premature puberty if not controlled well which affects long term height) such as the dhea's and androstenedione and testosterone so in those periods his bones can recoup. But those on higher doses all the time are certainly bound for Osteoporosis and that is my concern about extending the Induction Phase of the diet on Atkins. Bone x-rays do not give the same readings as bone density scans and bone density scans are very expensive so few will have taken the precauctionary measure of having them. Atkins recommends the Induction phase of the diet for some two weeks but also says that if you wish to remain on the Induction phase for longer, that you can. My concern really is this...if I stay on this Induction phase of the diet for longer than two weeks "thinking" that I am safe because I am taking a daily supplement of calcium when in actual fact, it cannot be retained by my body or processed because of the acidic state and is excreted with other levels of calcium from my bones, I will never know about this unless I can afford a bone density scan. is there some way of testing the caclium excretion in the urine to find out exactly what the levels are coming out at different phases of the diet?

I don't intend staying on the Induction phase of the diet for any more than the two weeks because of my thinking on this matter and also because I feel my weight loss will occur anyway due to the level of activity that I pursue each week now. That and because I feel in lifting weights that you really do need carbs in higher quantities than 20 grams per day. I guess I am just trying to get my body to kick off with the weight loss and then I intend to move the the next phase and other phases when it recommends or sooner if I feel the need to.

I did weights for the first time yesterday (day three on Induction) and could simply not lift the weights that I lifted last week with ease. I do pyramid sets of 12,10,8,6 then 12 again followed by an isolation on a different exercise for 12 reps. Each rep has a minute rest inbetween. Normally when I do the reps, I step the weights up by 2lbs each time I move to the next set until I reach the 6 reps and then I take a minute rest and lift the next twelve with the same weight. This sends impulses to the brain and back to make the muscle work harder and normally come the second 12 reps in each set I get this surge of energy and can do all twelve no problem. Last night, I could only do 9 and I had to stop--could not get any further than that. So this diet does restrict your ability at the third in were weight lifting is concerned. I had a complete sense of failure and almost like I had taken a large step backwards to be honest. However, I had the sense to recognise that this is only day three and that supposedly I will get an energy boost. Obviously my body has not yet got the hang of calling upon the fat stores for fule instead of glycogen. Hopefully this will improve on my other sessions this week--wednesday and friday nights. I did think to report that finding to others though and I will keep you updated on how I go the rest of the week.

I'd be glad of a few comments from those of you who have a good physiological understanding of these processes to possibly have a discussion about that aspect.

Regards

Anne-Marie

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Hi Anne-Marie
What kind of cardio were you doing? The first few days of induction are fairly tough. I had NO ENERGY at all for about the first week. Its all about the amount of carbs that we are taking in versus what we need to do a work-out.

20g of carbs is NOT enough to sustain a intense weight lifting like you are doing (pyramid). Take it from me-I know. I was using Atkins menus for the past 5 months and lost 50 lbs. I decided to switch to Body for Life. I NEEDED to increase my carbs. There was no way I could do that training and onlly have 20g carbs. Just remember that when you increase your carbs, to do so by more veggies, fruit or whole wheat bread if needed. You may want to read WHAT PLAN IS RIGHT FOR ME in the right hand corner of the forum. If you are quite active, you may want to give BFL a shot! Nat has posted a wonderful thread on doing Body for life with a low carb twist--but we eat 100g carbs a day-not 20!

By the way, Ketosis and ketoacidosis are different things. Being on day 3 of Atkins, you are in ketosis. You will excrete these either by urination or your breath-that is why sometimes we get such horrible smelling breath
Carbs we eat usually are converted to glucose, and eventually energy. Because you are limiting the carbs, 3 days now, your body is pulling from fat stores. It will break it down and ketone bodies CAN be used by the brain and other tissues for energy.

Ketoacidosis is usually associated with Type 1 diabetics. It gets confused a lot (especially by those who hate Atkins way of eating) but its not the same. All people need energy. Insulin is usually a "monitor" for the body as to how much blood glucose is around and available. In the Type 1 diabetic, insulin is not present at all due to probs with the pancreas and receptors for the insulin. Therefore, because it is not available to regulate the levels of glucose, it thinks there is none around so it starts to break-down fat cells. It breaks it down at a very fast rate since the brain needs energy and what happens is ketone formation is VERY rapid. Dehydration also occurs and then sodium and potassium are lost because the body pees a lot to try and get rid of excess glucose. From this, high blood acid levels occur and the acid/base balance becomes disrupted because the body cant read that it doesnt need to break down these stores. ***If these same people are given insulin or those of us who are "normal" and can make insulin on our own, this would never happen because the insulin/glucagon ratios would regulate each other.***


Hope this helps a bit. There is also other info about calcium, etc in the supplement section of the forum. I dont like to mess with any type of calcium supplements because it controls so many processes in the body-that is just me. Please check out that forum

Welcome!
Vicki

I am sooo relieved to have you post about Body For Life. I started the plan last week actually, but have been following the diet a few days longer. My Personal Trainer signed me up to it. So I had been doing the 20 minute cardio as Bill suggests and then the weight training on the alternative days. Up to now I have managed every session, so when I did my weights on Monday night and it really did feel much much different. I thought that was the worst of it actually. Cardio I could simply not even try today because I feel so run down at the moment on day 4 of the Atkins diet.
I wanted to stick with body for life but felt like I was eating more carbs than I really needed to in eating a portion x5 times per day the size of a clenched fist. In week two (I had really done 6-7 weeks of intense weights and fitness) I saw no weight loss and a guy spoke to me at the gym. He asked how I was doing and I said, "Great." Then came the next sentence where he said, "Yeh I have lost 7 kilo's and I have been coming here 7 weeks also." I asked him how he had done it and he said Atkins Diet.

Well as soon as he said Atkins, due to hearing so much bad press, I didn't pay much attention to him after that. But the next day I came home--this is 6 days into Body For Life---and I knew I was eating too many carbs. So I did some serious two days searching on the Atkins Diet--read the whole site and printed it off and basically started the diet on Friday just gone. Ketosis happened quickly because of my cardio on Sunday morning and then weight training on the Monday. However, I feel very achy all over and started my period and the cramps are horrendous today. I am taking no.salt for potassium and calcium (340mg) per day and a multi vitamin also and cod liver oil but still these cramps.

After more searches I read something about other types of ketogenic diets such as:

The Cyclic Ketogenic Diet and

The Targeted Keto Diet

today. The targeted keto diet sounds a little more fair for weight lifters. I don't know if you know anything about it but you are supposed to follow the Low Carb diet and be in ketosis but approx 60 minutes before weight training--to assist muscle repair and for energy, you are meant to take around 25mg or so or carbs which are then worked off with your training and are addicitonal to your normal daily allowed quota. Of course I felt like a complete cheat having started the body for life and then switched, but I have large fat deposits and everytime I go to the gym now---I see people looking over and I feel very despondant because they see me lifting the weights, but I feel they are looking at me--noticing that I am not shrinking in size and that possibly feel I am not doing the weights right. This is such a bad feeling of failure that I didn't bother going for my cardio this morning at all. I could not have managed it anyway--but even if I could, I am more bothered about people thinking I pig out at home and am not lifting right now. But I follow things exactly how they should be. I just think on that diet I am taking too many carbs. I did my journal online for the first week or two, but stopped doing that because I felt like such a cheat switching to Atkins. But I felt I had reached a plateau and despite the hard work, nothing fat wise was coming off. I could feel it under my skin still there in the abdomen and thighs.

My journal is:

http://www.cahsupportforum.com/bodyforlife/journal.html

The pictures are at:

http://www.cahsupportforum.com/body...e/pictures.html

I am basically glad to hear from you this evening as I logged in because I honestly felt I should eat more carbs all day but of course was trying to get into ketosis and give my fat loss a boost before I go back to the BFL plan. I may just stick with Atkins for the two week Induction and then move to the Targeted Keto Diet for a week or two and see how my weight loss goes thereafter. Then I will step to what your doing at present, rather than the recommended carbs in the BFL book. I actually think I may appreciate the limited carbs more after that period of time knowing what can happen without them!

Thanks for your help!

Regards

Anne-Marie

http://www.cahsupportforum.com/bodyforlife/photos.html

Thats where my photos are.

and check the "Home" page from the links at the top.

Hi Anne-Marie
First off-what a wonderful pic you put up! You look great.

Secondly, if you go to the main page of the forum--under exercise there is a section called Body for Life. If you click on it, up at the top there are some stickys on what to eat and how to do BFL with a low carb twist. It is VERY helpful. Im in week 3 and still trying to tweak my foods.

Things like berries, cottage cheese, apples, fruits, etc are great. Im trying right now (with advice from our guru Nat who has been VERY successful on the plan) to be able to interchange any of my 6 meals. I eat fruit and cottage cheese for a snack. When I lift weights, I eat within 45 mins afterwards and then I have a piece of toast or something with more carbs.

Also, try glutamine--it helps. As I said, check out that site!!!!

REMEMBER!! AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!! Muscle weighs MORE than fat. I have found out while on the Atkins way of life that some times I wouldnt lose a pound, yet I would go down in inches or a size in clothing. IT CAN HAPPEN. I got to the point where the scale was so frustrating I threw it out--literally. Im not joking. So now I weigh myself once a month. Also, there are people who went through a whole BFL challenge and lost 2 lbs, but went down 3 sizes and many many inches. PLEASE do not base your success on numbers on a scale. I feel that is where a lot of people go wrong when trying to lose weight and tone up. Take your measurements and keep taking those pics. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO TELL A DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!!!!

The CKD diet---go to talk with TrainerDan or his girlfriend (and a wonderful person) Fern. Look under journals for T and F for them. Dan is a personal trainer and has a book out about CKD. They have both been very successful on that plan and like it a lot.

As far as people at the gym looking at you: ANNE-MARIE!!!!!!! You have to do this for you---you are a work in progress and judging from your pic, people are looking at you admiring how incredibly great you look! To be honest-and Im serious--I could care less what the people at the gym think of me. I was 311 lbs! I am 5 9 so yes, Im a big girl. I still went to the gym and did my thing. Now Im 261 (probably less, havnet checked) and I go and do BFL. I am oblivious to the poelpe around me. You cannot be worried about what they think--you have a PLAN and a MISSION to work out and you have to stick to it. You can plan your workouts and then get in there, do it and get out. PLEASE DO NOT LET OTHERS MAKE YOU FEEL BAD--in the long run, that is going to do nothing for you other than hurt you and YOUR progress. Keep on going to that gym

YOU have to do what is right for YOU. Keep a journal! Make one on here. You can go to journals and look at the sticky by tamarian to figure out how. You would do it under B for your screen name. People will come in to support you, to help you tweak your menu, to laugh with you and to share your accomplishments. If you dont believe me, look at my journal. I love all of those people who have supported me no matter what. When I eat a piece of cheesecake, they EMPATHIZE with me--they dont criticize me. Try it out. You will get really great advice from PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU about vitamins, BFL, Atkins, etc.

ASk yourself this question? Who did you hurt by not going to do your cardio this morning? Did the poeple who you think stare at you live their life any differently? NO. Do you feel bad? YES So...the fact that you think others are looking at you and you are making chocies to avoid them is effecting YOU and no one else. PLEASE just keep on trucking--it will get easier and you can do this. We are here for you.

Now, start that journal. Tomorrow is a new day. Keep your head up---"Progress, not perfection"

You can do this.

Vicki

I took a look at some of Nat's posts last night before toddling off to bed. They made a great deal of sense.

Looking at the scale this morning though...hmmm...was 69 kg's on Friday and I am now 68 kg's. I just feel I would be more comfortable dropping some of this fat before I go to the gym. I had read Dr Hussmans site a while back and that got me beyond the fifth week of exercising flat out and seeing no results. I did feel fitter and I know it is important to accept any progress, but I can see no fat reduction at all--except in measuring my waist. I think that that was merely having done so many abdominal exercises that it was pulling it in though.

Since I have worked so har to get into ketosis now, I may stick with that and get as much as I can out of it, and possibly just have a milk shake prior to my workouts for some energy. That and try the glutamine at bedtime after my weight training as Nat says. After two weeks of that I will move to introducing nuts and berries and fruit and maybe some vegies. I also think I was not consuming enough fat. Everything was low fat. It recommends I take around 37 grams of fat per day for my build, but I had no idea how to convert cod liver oil pills and the odd tsp of peanut butter or the odd squirt that I put in the salad of olive oil. Possibly I was on low fat so that could have made all the difference--except that I feel I would not have consumed so many carbs left to my own devices but for the book instructing me to take them at every sitting. Personally on nights that I don't train I would have avoided them after 5pm to be honest and just had protein because I don't think they are needed on nights that I don't train--so I have some tweaking to do when I come off this Induction.

I think I had to drop the carbs out completely and then slowly re introduce them anyway to find my personal tolerance of them on this BFL program. So I am not going to look at it as a step backwards, but rather the beginning of a learning curve.

Thank you very much for responding and I may have time today to just have a tiki tour around the site and read other's journals.

Kind Regards,

Anne-Marie