Ah the national anthem. Whenever we go to the movies on base, before they play the movie they play the national anthem first. Everyone has to stand up and all the active duty members stand nice and tall with their hands at their sides. It still moves me till this day. I've learned to appreciate our country and freedom more since DH joined the AF.

My oldest feels so special cause his Daddy is an AF man.

I wouldn't trade this life either. I'm enjoying it to the fullest. Especially the traveling we do. We're off to Scotland in May, and in summer of 2005 we are going to Spain and Disneyland in Paris. Summer of 2006 we will be doing Switzerland and our last summer here 2007 we are off on a Greek Isle cruise and Italy.

I love my life. I'm blessed.

I agree about the BX and Commissary too. I love that I can buy Tommy Hilfiger (sp?) for half of half the cost you would get it at civilian store. We still shop around but always end up getting what we need on base.

Cheers

Karen, welcome to the thread.
Let me please say that DH right now would be making 2x the money that he is in the Military with the exact same benefits that we have right now (plus the housing allowence and the Cola we get for beeing in Hawaii)
if he would be working as a DOD Civillian in the same career he is now.
The reason why he is not is because he wants to retire and he likes serving the Military.
I am a military wife and I am proud of it, BUT sometimes I feel we wifes really do NOT get the much needed recognition we deserve.
There are many positive things about it I agree, but there are a few little things that I feel could use some change.
Miez

Karen,
Welcome to group!

I'm happy to hear that you have enjoyed your life as a wife of a service member! Please try to remember though, others haven't always had the experience you have. You have every right to stay in the military and express your love for it, just as those of us who dislike it have that right. No one who is disappointed in their experience is trying to talk anyone into leaving their job, we're mearly voicing our opinions.

First of all.....if you are happy (or at least content) to be seperated from your husband, that's wonderful for you. Not everyone wants to live like that. I know couples that do better seperated, but for me and my husband, we actually LIKE to be together. No job I could ever have would be worth seperating our kids from their father. If I wanted that, I would get a divorce. I too want a better life for my kids, that's why we will be leaving the service.

Base housing varies greatly across the nation. We had beautiful housing in SC and the housing in FL is substandard (you actually get extra money for them making you live there). As far as buying a house.....well you can't always afford to. Remember it depends on where you are living. Housing costs can vary significantly across the nation too. We owned a nice home in VA, but then again, it was a lower cost of living than where I am now. Living here in Hawaii, just to get a simple home (3 bed 1500 sqft home) costs $275,000-300,000. By the way, VA loans only go up to $250,000. Sorry, but I can't shell out $50,000. Don't know many military members that can. You also have to have good credit and some people don't have that. Keep in mind some members might just be starting out in life, it takes a while to drum up some credit. Couldn't afford to rent, so I'm stuck in a very old very run down house. Some of the housing here is refurbished and gorgeous, but there's a 2 year wait minimum. We're only here for 3 years....would that make sense????

Not sure where you've seen the respect in the Navy! Are you an officer's wife? Life is definately better for them. I've had commands treat me like dirt. I've never provoked anyone. I'm also not one of those wives that calls her husband everyday at work. I called a whooping 5 times over 5 years! Everyone of them a serious emergency. I called one time that I fell down the stairs with my infant, shattered my foot, and couldn't walk to reach my other two toddlers stuck upstairs. They told me they would get the message to him when "they felt like it". Again, not everyone has had a lovely experience.

I can second the comment on pay with Miez. My husband would easily make twice what we're making including any addtional pays. I guess it depends on you husbands field of expertise.

Medical though, I hate to inform you is not free. I know this is a misconception of many many military members. Look at a break down of your hubby's pay. I was in the Navy myself, and questioned something being taken out of mine. I was explained by PSD that it was for my contribution towards my medical care. Also, just because your Prime, does not mean that you are free. You are lucky that you have a well stocked hospital in your area. Most of our doctor's at Tripler Hospital have been sent over to Iraq. Over 60% of Prime patients are being referred out to civilians. In this case you WILL PAY your deductables and copays up to your catastrophic cap. Just like when the hospitals don't have certain meds or durable medical goods, you pay for those too. If you are lucky in life and don't require much medical assitance, you won't know these things. But those of us with serious medical issues in the family have experienced this alot. The Tripler clinics I would be utilizing also don't allow for my three children to attend my appointments. I can't afford to have my children babysitted, nor will I give them over to a stranger to watch.

Commissaries are also not always cheaper. In Viginia it made no sense at all to go to them versus Walmart. I don't know if all commissaries do this , but here in Hawaii they tack on another 5% to your bill. I'm sure Miez can attest to this as she's in Hawaii too. They said it was to "keep the lights on". And as for exchanges, well not all of us can afford Tommy Hilifiger clothes to begin with. Exchanges are NOT anywhere as cheap as Walmart is. Try adding two more kids to your brood (add up two more times the daycare costs...you'll probably quit your job cause you wouldn't be able to afford that either) and see if you can afford top name brand clothes.

Discounts at certain places can be wonderful, but here not too much. Infact, you get a ton better deals being kami'aina (resident to Hawaii). And I'm gonna bet, outside the nation (all those stationed around the world), stores don't give a flip if you're military of another country.

If you're so happy with the retirement pays, why are you working towards retirement at your job too??? My father retired and gets way more pay from retiring from IBM. Some civilian corporations are just as good in that regard.

As far as pride, well my husband will tell you he wants out even more than I want him out. Sure we have pride for our country and our fellow members, but that doesn't mean that 9 years isn't enough and we would like a different lifestyle for us. I too get choked up when I hear anything to do with the soldiers, but mostly because so many of them are lost and their families (moms, dads, spouses, and children) are left behind. Sure it's noble, but try losing your husband or child and see how glad you are that they lost their life to go over and search for a terrorist.

I'm not trying to be rude or hateful by this post, but I can't tell you the number of comments I've had in my life as to how I should be happy to be in the service. Those people have not lived my life, have not went through my grief. They have no business telling me how lucky I am in life. Not everyone has a great time in the service, please try to remember that. It may be noble and selfless of you to be involved, but that doesn't mean that you have to give the rest of your life to it. We've paid our dues to the country and now we are going focus on our family as that is how I believe God would want it. Remember the slogan goes God then Country. I'm not sure GOd is more concerned with how we've fought for our country, but I'm sure he cares about how we raise our kids.

Ok, sorry for that guys, just had to get it off my chest. I hear a lot of civilians say how the military is so fabulous. And while it is in some regards, I have to wonder if they've ever met someone who hasn't had a great time of it. I think it's important to give the public a realistic view of the situation. I think that's one reason that so many of them don't have the respect for the families that we all want. I mean do you all have tons of respect for someone that seems to "have it all"? WHile that is far from the truth for us, lots of people really see the military as that way. I'm not saying it's all bad. For heaven sakes, I come from a very long line of military members. The only experience that has been bad out of them, has been mine. But, no one that I know ever "had it all", yet for some reason lots of the public think so. I think if they heard about some of the bad aspects, maybe they could appreciate what a challenging life it can be at times.

Take for instance the 911 families. They reacieved millions of dollars from the government to compensate. What about the service members families that lost someone because of the war effort? They receive nothing more than their life insurance (something those members paid for). Sure, you can say that the members signed up for the job, but most of them signed up during peace time. You can also say that the others agreed to work at a very well known landmark that has bomb threats weekly. There's just two ways of looking at things.

And like the majority of hawaiians here are seeing on tv, is the news stories of all the lovely new refurbished military homes. That's a very small percentage of the islands facilities, and most of us live in WWII homes that have exposed pipes, wires, asbestos tile and lead in the paint. We alone had 6 floods (3 sewage related) into our home in the the first 4 months we lived here. All because of a tree outside that had infected the sewage lines. This had gone on for the people who lived before us for the last 6 years!!! The Navy would do nothing for them. It took months of screaming on the phone for them to come fix the issue. That's true life, that's the stuff that never gets put on tv.


Anyhow....I sure hope everyone's weekend was great! Anything fun planned for Easter, this weekend, etc? I heard that schofield (the base next to ours) is having a big garage sale soon, so we'll probably be over there shopping for more homeschooling stuff. We had great time this weekend finding tons more books for the kiddos. I feel so lucky that my kids actually like them more than toys right now! I just have to figure out a way to keep it like that!

Well happy monday to all!!!!!

Join the club!
How long have you been married?
This November, it will be 24 years for us (I know, unusual for military families).

We're moving again, although we've been here for ten years.
However, this time we thought it was permanent, and bought our first house.
Now, I have to prepare it for selling, and I'm not really happy.
I like my job; I love my church, I really like my home.
However - when I said "I do" it was meant to be forever - wherever the Navy takes us.

cmcole- we've been married 8 yrs. you sound like me w/ the moving/house thing. Though we knew it wasn't going to be our forever house. This is our second home. I hope they both yours and ours sells quickly.

I know what you mean about the church thing. We've been here a year and never found a church we really loved like our old church in NJ. I hope we're lucky enough to find a great church at Andrews.

First, I didn't enjoy being separated from my hisband. I know that many military spouses don't work. We decided as a couple it would be better for us in the long run for me to continue to work at a job that would pay me for what I do instead of trying to kill myself at a low paying job with no job satisfaction and bring that frustration home where I would not even have anyone to "vent" to, because at that time FFGs didn't even have phones. I love my husband, and I love to be with him, but I promised support and I didn't mean just for the first year.

I am not going to argue the base housing issue. I've seen it all over and never heard anyone say they were forced into it. It is always a choice. And in many places you have to wait to get in.

My husband had a bankruptsy -- still on his credit -- and still managed to swing a much larger loan than we would ever need. And no, he is not an officer. He enlisted as an E-1 just like most of your spouses did. Yes, I agree that life is a far cry better for most of them.

I hope that your husband does double his pay when he gets out. I really do. I think everyone that serves even a short time deserves to be very successful outside. But I am going to tell you that I know 4 separate instances where friends of ours quit their enlistments for civilian jobs with better pay in the same field of work. In 3 cases it was for more than twice the pay. In two of those cases the job lasted only a single year and now those families are trying to subsist on less than the base military pay was. Those 2 families are truly hurting and none of the 4 is still in the job 5 years later. I can honestly say that to the best of my knowledge I have never met anyone that I know served more than 8 years that got out instead of retireing and in happy about the decision now. I am not saying that it cannot happen, but we are very active in the VFW and the community, and I just don't see it.

I don't call my husband every day either. I hear enough of his stories about the wives that do that I would never need another deterrent. Again though, I was on my own long enough before we married that I try to work my problems out before I call hubby.

My medical is FREE. I've been over it again and again on his LES. And I had an operation about 3 years ago that would have cost upwards of $100K in the civilian world and it cost me $12 and that was for meals. I do admit sometimes it takes me a while to get an appointment, and I am not always treated in the respectful manner that I have come to expect from paying for those visits before I became a "dependent." But, you know, I have found that a calm phone call placed to the correct person usually results in much better treatment going forward. And before everyone gets upset that I complain, I am about 3 times as likely to call and compliment on favorable treatment. I have even had personnel stop me to thank me because my comments have been added to their personnel folder and apparently that looks really good when they are up for board. Also, when I was referred out, and it was because my doctor was sent to Kuwait, Tricare took care of everything. There was no co-pay or deductible. If I were you I would fight that and get my money back. One thing I have not been in this life is medically lucky. I average avisit every 2 weeks. And not for minor illness. Tumors, inner ear malfunction, incredible headaches that they cannot pinpoint, bulging disks, detaching retinas. Big ticket items.

I think all commissaries must add that 5% on. Here they call it an "upcharge" but skinless boneless chicken breast at $1.09 a pound + 5% is still a lot cheaper than the cheapest grocery by me which charges $2.69 per pound. $2 a box for cereal is cheaper too. By about $2.50 a box. I cannot believe that cereal costs more than meat!!!! Just amazing.

Yes, I have met some people who have not had a great time of it. But they still don't spend a huge amount of time complaining about it, just certain experiences. And, no we don't have it all. Like I say, I work a lot of hours at a job that is not always rewarding. But that is because we want to have it all. And unlike many people, we are willing to work for it. We have a list of the things that we want and we know what it is going to take to get it.

Just an example....... We have some friends who have been in the Navy for the exact length of time that we have. The spouse works part time at a beer bar for a couple dollars and some meager tips. Yet their house cost twice as much as ours, and they have 2 brand new full size SUV,s and a full size sedan, and a brand new boat. (We drive compact cars, not quite at the bottom of the line, but close and we have no good toys) I complain to my hubby (yes I know very petty of me, but I am human) about how can they do that when we shoud be way ahead of them. He looks at me and sighs, and then tells me that they are mortgaged to the hilt and they are not putting anything away for their future. Apparently when they have a flat tire they have to use a line of credit against their house to pay the "unexpected expense." It still does not seem fair (I guess I am more into instant gratification than I thought...lol) but I guess I understand too. Work hard then play hard.

I would like to set the record straight, if the comment about the public thinking the military has it all was directed at me you were way off. I don't think that being separated from the part of you that makes you whole is having it all. Neither do I think that all the worry about where they are and when or if they are coming home is having it all. But I do think that a career in the military can be a means to an end, and that some people would do nothing else -- maybe even for no pay. I have heard way too many stories about 18 year old kids who join because they never had a pair of shoes before or because there isn't enough food for all the younger kids at home. I think that in the grand scheme of things, yes for the risk that they subject themselves to the pay and benefits could be better. But for some people it is about more than money.

I suppose it all depends on the angle that you choose to look at it.

Happy Tuesday everyone.

Karen- how many years did/do you live apart?

I am one that gave up my career to follow my DH. I am an elem teacher, but only taught one year before all the moving started. NJ had so many hoops for me to go through to get certified for that state, I never did get it completed. I found a job in a different field, not making nearly the same amount of money. But for us, it was more important to start building our life together. Here in TX, I've been working on getting certified here, but of course, now we're moving so it doesn't matter. I'm not sure if I'll even bother in DC, or if I'll just work on getting my NC certification current again for when we move back. DH is finishing up his masters degree now, so he'll be starting a new career. He'll only be 38 when he retires from the AF, that's too young to retire completely.

As for the base housing thing, we've never lived on base before. But with the upcoming move to Andrews, we will be because to live off base will cost us way more out of pocket than we want to spend. To buy is ridiculous in that area, especially since we'll only be there 2 yrs and for what I've seen, renting a house (we have to for the pets we have, an apartment wouldn't allow them) would be more than we'd spend on a mortgage. Plus living in base housing will enable us to save even more to put down on our "forever house". So if the housing is crappy, I probably will complain. It's my right.

I'm glad you're happy with your decisions, but don't fault anyone else on theirs. And if people have complaints, please remember you don't have the whole story of what they are going/have been through.

Look Karen I don't want to argue with you at all. But you came into this thread telling us how we dont deserve to complain about our situations. You don't know me at all, and have no right to tell me what I can or can't do, much less what my life has been like. You also have no right to tell me that I'm complaining all the time. When you loose a child due to the military like I have, you come talk me then. A converstion between myself and someone else on this board is just that.

I could make a retort to every one of your claims....but it's not worth my morning. You obviously think you're right about everyone elses life. Think what you would like about me, I'm not concerned. Just remember, because you have liked something and want to pursue it for life, doesn't mean everyone else does. My husband's enlistment will be up relatively soon, and the government says he has a right to leave. I don't need your support to do that.

Thank you Raleigh. I appreciate the support. I hope you realize, along with everyone else, I wasn't trying to complain. I was just being honest when everyone else commented on liking it.....just sort of became a longer conversation between myself and a few others. I can't say I don't regret him re-enlisting, but I know it was God's plan and so we will finish it up with a smile on our faces. It'll just be nice to be out and doing as we want for a change.

I commend all of you that have stayed in for the long haul. It's a choice only you can make.

Thank you again.

sorry it double posted.

Karen: one thing I didn't add, I wasn't refering to you as the "public", I was refering to the "public". I've had dozens and dozens make that very comment to me while living right there in VA. Sorry to have offended you by that , it was not my intention with that comment.

I'm sorry to find this thread as become a mini war zone. Everyone has difference experiences in life whether they are in the military or not.

Like I've mentioned before, I'm sorry to hear some have had more of a negative experience with it and pray it gets better for ya.

Please lets not turn this thread into something other than what it should be, a place where we can share our Military experiences without pointing fingers at each other and saying, you are wrong I am right this is good or this is bad. We should be supporting each other, not fighting with each other. I think there is enough fighting going on in this world already. And with our better halves being the one's going out there to do some of that fighting we should be more respectful to one another's opinions and point of view.

God bless,

elmuy,
I second what you said about the Hawaii thing.
No need to apologize either.
We had 2 kids and guess what?
They are in a public school. Shouldn't be the Schoolbus free?
Maybe on the Mainland but not here in Hawaii.
We pay per Busride 35 cents per child. well, if my calculations are correct we pay $1.40 per day just for Schoolbus ride. On top of that we have to pay the luncyh tickets 20 dollars for 20 meals. That times 2 (since I have 2 boys going to school).
We had to buy a new car when we got to the Islands and only because we bought it heree at a Dealership we had to pay an additional 3000 Dollars for the "portfee". (They charge that on every new car sold here in Hawaii).
When you ask for the Military Rate they look at you, ask you if you are Stationed here and will tell you the Kamaaina Rate (Hawaii Resident) is way cheaper than the Military Rate.
Also, what you have to think about is a lot of places charge you according to Rank.
My DH is a Warrant Officer (he only makes about 200 dollars a month more than an E-8 with the same years in)
and they charge according to him beeing an officer. He was enlisted prior to ging Warrant and he used to be getting Clothing Allowence but this is no more. He has to pay out of his own pocket for uniforms. he paid over 400 Dollars for the Class Blues that he wore maybe 2x in the last 6 years.
I am glad when we leave here because I hate it. it is way too expensive and the housing stinks.
Just my 2 cents.
Ready to move on.

Raleigh,

In answer to the one question -- my husband and I lived apart for just over 4 years. He too will retire at 38 which is too young to retire "for good" for us to because we don't want to move to the middle of nowhere. Though sometimes it seems like it would be worth it to just be able to be finished with the 9-5.

I hear that the certifications for many states are crazy like that. Don't give up. In WI you can't teach without a certification, but it is my understanding that you can teach for a period of time in IL (I heard 2 1/2 years) without ANY certification. Maybe there are other states that don't require certification or that would take the one you have.

Elmuy, I didn't mean to tell anyone not to complain about anything, or that they were complaining all the time. I apologize that my comments about complaint were not as clear as they could have been (the comment that I think you took personally really wasn't meant that way). I have a problem with clarity when I have too many thoughts splitting off.

I also believe that you are where you are supposed to be. It's all part of a bigger plan. No, that does not mean liking it, but it does mean working through it and having lots and lots of trust.

I am sorry for your loss. A friend of mine recently lost an ectopic pregnancy and also a healthy uterine pregnancy because the Navy doctor she saw would not believe that she was ectopic and would not test her for it until it was too late. I suffered a miscarriage once as well, and while I know that those are not the same as losing a child, they are also painful and you have my most sincere empathy.

Miez, I agree that education should be free and that includes the bus too and paying the teachers a liveable wage. My son's school cost me way over a thousand dollars out of pocket this year (and our property taxes are high). And there are still 2 1/2 months left. But they grow up altogether too quickly.

So, in a nutshell, I didn't mean to offend anyone, I just meant to offer another outlook. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Can't we all just be friends?