Thanks again!

As it turns out, I had a BIG wooosh overnight. Down 4 more pounds! That is very satisfying as last time I was on Paxil, I started to lowcarb, and lost nothing.

If the weight loss is slowed, that's okay, I'm nearing goal anyway. I couldn't handle no loss or any gain though.

I've done a bit of research since my first post, and it appears that "High protein" is aparently only dangerous to those with liver problems if they develope a mental condition "mental encephalopathy". High protein is thought to contribute to this condition. High protein is not a danger otherwise to those with liver problems and is generally not restricted. This comes from several liver specialists, not lowcarb people.

High fat has been mentioned to possibly be a problem. Don't know if that's just more of the same from the "all fat is bad" group, or if there's something to that.

Also read that rapid weight gain can actually make one develope or worsen fatty liver. I guess due to the liver processing more fat than it's ability? They didn't say why, only that rapid loss could cause it. Hmmmm. At 3 or 4 lbs a week for me, it's been pretty rapid. May have to look at slowing down the loss, which I need to do soon anyway since I've got about 15 lbs to goal.

Hopefully all this info can help someone else avoid this. This all started with me 3 years ago, my first time on Atkins. I had the book, but didn't know much more about it at that time. I had heard and read that lowcarbing was dangerous and could harm the liver. I didn't really believe it, but would be lying if I said the thought wasn't in the back of my mind. With my drinking history, and worrying about liver problems, perhaps this is what caused my tail spin into panic disorder hell!

neeam,
Don't blame your dr. They aren't specialists in every field. My dr. sent me to a GI, doc for the biopsy. I had hi liver enzymes and too much iron in my blood work. They thought I might have hemochromatosis. Thank God I didn't! Fatty liver. When people become obese, it's becaue the body stores fat, and when it stores fat, it also stores it in the liver. My theory is when you are buring fat, you have to be burning it from the liver as well. But! there are other factors to consider too. Like a very slow metabolism, which I apparently have and is the reason I have all this weight and a fatty liver. I'm no expert by any means, but I know what I was trying to do with the low fat diet wasn't working.

I'm hoping when I go back in for blood work, my triglycerides and enzymes are down. We'll see. I go next month.. Dianne

While I know how you feel about your doc's qualifications, I still see my non-enlightened GP. He is good at everything else. The problem is the almost nonexistent nutrition training doctors receive in training. That coupled with the line of rubbish the AMA has been feeding MDs for years. I don't even mention to my physican that I'm on Atkins. As long as the readings are going in the right direction, that's all I'm concerned with.

Well, an update.

Went to the doc, and he was impressed with the weight loss, 46 lbs since my visit last year. Told him I was lowcarbing, and he had nothing bad to say about it, so either he was being polite, or is one of the informed ones......

Doc left message on my ans machine Friday. Said my liver tests all came back fine, AND, (drumroll) said my cholesterol was "excellent" and "far, far better than it was before". I'll post the actual numbers from last year and this year once the new ones come in the mail.

Go in for an ultrasound 2nd December to check for fatty liver. Hopefully that's okay. If the ultrasound comes back clean, I guess I'll have no choice but to accept I have no liver problems.

Pretty good week!

Dave, <b>congratulations!!!!</b> That's awesome!! You should whip up a blurb for the "success stories" forum.

WTG!

Dave, that's great!! Let me know how the fatty liver thing comes out. Maybe there's hope for me as well. Dianne

I am surely glad to hear your latest news. I have heard very positive things about people using 'milk thistle' for liver problems. The husband of a friend had Hepatitis C last year and his liver specialist was amazed at how quickly he recovered after taking milk thistle. It's available from most health food stores.

Last spring, I took a preparation called "liver support" that had a lot of milk thistle in it before my operation. I recovered much faster from the anaesthetic than previously and felt better sooner. Just a suggestion from my experience.

Finally got the numbers back from the doc. After being back on and sticking with Atkins, the numbers are impressive.....

--------------Last year-----------This year

Weight ---------268------------------222

Cholesterol------326------------------158

HDL Chol---------39-------------------46

Trig-------------378-------------------98

Bad news is I got the results back for my liver ultrasound, and it is showing an "enlarged liver", but was otherwise "unremarkable". No mention of fatty infiltration, or any other problems noted. My liver function tests are all fine as well.

So, I've got something bad going on with the liver, and it doesn't look to be fatty liver as the doc suspected. Looks like I'm not crazy after all, and the symptoms were in fact real. So now I have to make an appointment next week with the specialist, and go from there. Hopefully I won't be told to go off Atkins, because I know the weight gain that awaits me if I do......

Hi Dave,

I'm Chris. I read your post and you couldn't have described my symptoms better. I've been seeing a good doc and she's been treating me for a very underactive thyroid. The pain from the fatty liver is all but gone, even when I eat a lot of fat. She told me that the underactive thyroid makes cholesteral sky high and subsequently can cause a fatty liver. I used to dring a lot too, but I quit almost 10 years ago and I thought this was something that I had done to myself. I think that the fatty liver is in part due to my former drinking but the symptoms didn't come on until nearly 8 years into sobriety.

The other symptoms, the itchness and weakness, and joint pains, I had them all and a few more. Water retention in ankles, face and hands, depression, moodiness, didn't feel like doing anything.

I'm wondering if you've had thyroid blood work done? It's not as common in men so maybe your doc. should check it out.

Best,

Christiane

To Dave:

Very interesting reading your experiences - you've also gotten some good advice.

Have you and your doctor considered possible gall bladder problems? Gallstones, or simple inflammation can cause pain exactly where you stated - under the right side of your rib cage.

Since the gall bladder's role is to help in digestion of fat, this aspect of a LC diet may be a contributing factor since more fat is usually a hallmark of this diet.

From: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/surgery/clin/gi/gallblad.html

"The majority of patients with symptoms from their gallstones will suffer from chronic cholecystitis. The attacks are caused by a stone becoming stuck either in the junction of the gallbladder and the bile duct or in the duct itself. The muscle in the wall of both gallbladder and duct contracts in an effort to move the stone and this produces intense pain usually felt under the ribs on the right-hand side of the abdomen. "

Protein metabolism would more directly affect the kidneys since that is where a lot of protein byproducts are collected and eliminated from the blood stream.

Hope this helps.

Rick

Dave, got sober myself almost 12 years ago. Right now my liver is okay, and it was a concern of mine too for many years. The best thing you can do for your liver is to not drink and see your doctor.

Second, I am curious what the doctor says about how Paxil and your liver will get along. I would insist on a liver profile to determine whether it is safe for you to be on Paxil or some other medication. Every time the doc wants to prescribe meds for me I insist on blood work first.

I tend to do the Saint John's Wort during the dreary months we have up here. I have had a few panic attacks, but nothing that required medication. The St. John's Wort keeps me pretty in check, but again, if your liver is already compromised, it could be harmful.

Will doing low carb compromise your liver? I don't really know the answer to that and I'd like to know as well. I can't see why it would to be honest with you, but if you aren't taking in enough water, I can see where kidney issues could and would arise. I am very careful to make sure I am drinking lots of water. No caffine here.

Whatever you do decide, don't drink no matter what. Every day above ground is a miracle and an opportunity.

Hello, I just wanted to share my experience regarding my liver biopsy. It was nothing to worry about. Absolutely nothing to it. You lie down and they give you an injection to freeze the local area and then they do it-it just takes a second-no pain, just a bit of pressure. Then you stay and lie on your side for about 45 minutes, then you go home. I had absolutely no pain, no problems. I've have had far worse experiences than that. I've had funny itchy feelings too. It feels like a bug crawling on me for a second, especially on my lower legs. I have disc problems, so my nerves are probably affected. I have a numbness on the outer right thigh and tingles-I think it's due to my back, putting the nerves out of place. I used to drink too. I have anxiety problems as well. It's tough. You won't know exactly what's going on with your liver until you get a biopsy. My friend had one too and had the same experience as me. Good luck with everything.

Thanks again.

Since my last post, I saw the GI, who examined me and looked over my ultrasound and blood tests, and said more than likely nothing more than fatty liver. He did not even want to do Hepatitis tests, but I insisted. He said at this point it is highly unlikely I have any problem other than fatty liver, and really could not in good conscience recommend a biopsy.

He advised me to continue to lose weight, and try to put my fear of liver problems out of my mind. He said that if I thought about it, couldn't get past the anxiety over my past abuse of alcohol and fear of damage I've done, and decided a little down the line I needed the biopsy to put my mind at ease, he would make sure I was able to have it done.

So, I'll give it six months and see how I feel.

I have been tested for thyroid, and that came back fine.

I still have the itch, on and off, and the ache in the side is still there, though not as often. About all I can do at this point is get down to my goal weight, keep it there, and don't abuse the acohol again, which I haven't for several years now. I got a hold of that problem. Fear of dying has a way of motivating a person to live healthy.

Also mentioned to this doc I was losing weight by "carb restriction" and he also did not advise against it.

Dave,

From what I have been reading, the liver has great regeneration capabilities. Keep up the clean living, and your liver should continue to improve.

Lila