This is an excellent observation. This is precisely the reason we see so many studies floating around that "show" high-carb diets are good for this, low-carb diets are good for that, or cause such and such problem, blah blah... it is so easy to use statistics to support a hypothesis by finding correlations somewhere, and without poring over the actual journal paper there is no way to know if all they had was a correlation, if it was weak or strong, or how well other variables were controlled, etc. There was also a great thread in the LC Research forum recently that talked about researcher bias.

It is unfortunately very common to take a dataset and fuss with it using a stats program, running different tests until you can come up with something from the numbers. It isn't really very difficult either.

It can be really confusing to pick through all this stuff. I refuse to put much faith in anything I read anymore unless there is other evidence to support it, and the conclusions don't contradict each other too much.

I thought this thread was interesting because in my weightloss on atkins I certainly felt like I had a window of opportunity that has dramatically slowed. The first 8 months on atkins I lost the first 74 lbs then it slowed and the next 2 months I lost 11 lbs and then after that it has come to a crawl and took 4 months to lose 10lbs.

So although I don't think my weightloss has stopped and I can't lose anymore, it just has been really slow.

I think I am one of those though that has to resort to the ancient art of calorie counting.

I don't understand why gastic bypass patients would stop losing after 8-12 months if they are eating small amounts....the body doesn't undo the bypass, after all!



I never said it undoes the bypass... but the body adapts and adjusts to the bypass and starts to be able to function better again and also the person is able to eat larger amount of food if they stretch whats left of the stomach...one poster here even said that she regained weight after losing a lot from bypass surgery.

If the patient is eating small amounts then they would continue to lose... but there is an advantage other than eating small amounts from bypass surgery where what is ate is not all absorbed and this is what changes over time and improves making weight loss harder for the patient after the "window" is over.

It would certainly not be impossible for them to continue to lose after that... it just wouldn't be as easy.

"Low calorie" has certainly meant deprivation for me in the past whenever I followed low calorie/low fat programs. I can understand how anyone with experience with that form of dieting would be wary of adding calorie management into a low carb WOE. I would never want to repeat the cycle of hunger, deprivation, and being physically run down that was the kind of experience I had with low cal/low fat.

For me, low cal/low carb is a very different sort of experience. Sure, I am not hungry, but I don't think it's only a "hunger" thing. I think I'm am able to fuel my body so much more efficiently with low carb - even at managed calorie levels.

With my weight loss so far, I'd say that the low carb metobolic advantage does play out in both a feeling of sustainable energy through the day as well as significant weight loss potential without consciously managing portions. For me, the weight loss part tapered off after a while and I think that's most likely due simply to the fact that my size changed to the point that it matched my LC portions of the time. Even when my weight loss ground to a halt, I certainly had the low carb benefit of a kind of robust health that I've never been able to achieve with low fat. (Low fat actually caused some horrible connective tissue problems for me.)

I'm curious to see how other people progress in their weight loss and whether calorie management is a tool that can reignite the weight loss part of LC for people who's bodies appear to have moved into a weight maintaining mode. That said, when I first started calorie counting I wasn't getting the same level of benefit that I'm getting now. My start was with Calorie King software that let me track intake only. I just had too much daily variation in activity level for that one to be really successful for me. Fitday PC lets me manage the three things (cals in, cals out, and carb level) than have the most influence on my personal weight loss. It also has tools to track mood, fatigue, etc and relate them to either eating patterns or even weight loss. I don't find those things influential in my loss (since mine don't vary) but I'm sure that for some people those would be major weight loss or gain drivers.

As I blather on and on in praise of calorie tracking, don't let that feel like I'm implying that you need to follow the same path. I think it is important for folks to understand why a few of us are so enthusiastic about this and in what ways it has helped so they can make their own decisions on whether there might be something in it for them. However, I can certainly really relate to your need to make sure that your weight management plan doesn't add disruption or distraction to the rest of your life balance. (That's very much how I am with exercise, and I have strong personal resistance to doing any exercise that I percieve as "artificial" and not in keeping with enhancing whole body functionality in normal life situations.) I think the only long term "win" for any of us is based on personal balance, and that needs to be defined individually.

Lynda

I have to say that, new as I am to this WOE, I already (a few weeks in) feel tons better than I have in years.

I also think that the point about the body adjusting to the bypass is very key. They have surgically mutilated the body, frankly, removing a section of intestine and making the stomach smaller. But our bodies are adaptive and the physical doesn't always have the same "goals" as the mental. The body wants to survive and also prevent starvation. Weight loss is not a "natural" goal to the animal side of us, so to speak.

I suspect that their metabolisms slow down some as the body adjusts to the bypass and also due to the small amounts they eat... Also by about 8 months they may get careless. And their stomachs do grow again, so it would take longer to get full.

I have dieted many times and actually took all this weight off at one point, when I was younger, with OA. I feel as though my body is rolling its eyes and saying oh not another WOE! So I am giving it time and patience to get used to this one. I know this is right for me - with Syndrome X I have no business eating sugar, pasta, and bread anyway!

I have considered the bypass many times and each time I have gotten to a big "NO" inside me. I have to do this myself. Even if it takes years and even if I don't reach the goal weight I would prefer.

Sometimes its hard for me to post because I know my stats come up beside my name. I am afraid that people won't think I know what I am talking about because I haven't lost much.

Anyway, just my 2 cents here!

Miriam

Miriam

You seem to know what you're talking about to me.

We have close to the same amount of weight to lose and the same goal....I wish you lots of luck in losing....I know how hard it is.

I found out a lot about gastric bypass because a friend of mine had it done last summer and all I hear from her is that "window of oppurtunity" stuff... thats the first tme I heard that phrase....she is always worried that her "window" has passed.... she explained the whole thing to me and I couldn't understand why anyone would undergo such an operation and be left with such a huge scar when the results are not permanent, before I had always thought that at least it would end the weight problem... but it doesn't necessarily....also she got down to 180, when she began she was a little over 300....and now her loss has stalled out.

Thank you everyone who responded to my question. I like hearing Bluesmoke about your 8 month stall since I am approaching that. I really do need to limit calories while staying on lowcarb. I look so much better at this weight than I used to and am wearing smaller clothes than when I was on other diets and weighed this much. I guess that whether I lose another ounce I'll never stop lowcarbing because its the only way that I've gotten to this point. Time will tell if I lose more.