Some awesome results last month both lowering BG and weight loss over only four weeks! This was the 25 th DDF Challenge and the first using the new manual. Anyone can do this program with the free app and manual, but you can enjoy extra support by joining a challenge. Next starts Oct 7.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/dat...led/#more-43754
A new member lost 6.2% of her starting weight in 4 weeks, another dropped his waking BG by 54%. Use your glucose as a fuel gauge to lose weight and optimise your metabolic health

Also consider while doing the simple DDF program…Start to add in Nutrient Dense Foods. Unlocking the Power of Nutrient-Dense Foods: Your Guide to Optimal Nutrition
https://optimisingnutrition.com/nutrient-dense-foods-2/

The results of the most recent DDF Challenge, 4 weeks that took place from Saturday after Thankgiving to just before Christmas.

Data-Driven Fasting Challenge Triumphs: November 2023 Edition


Note clips in the article, Laura was STUCK at 227 pounds for 7 YEARS before she tried DDF. Now with DDF, she lost 47 pounds in 8 months, 19 pounds during the holiday season.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ddf-27-results/

Others smashed their Waking Blood Glucose down to no longer diabetic ranges. Judd in the past 2-3 sessions is a superstar in this area.

DDF works with any style of diet, but nobody starves, slow and steady weight loss can be achieved eating two healthy meals optimised for nutrition. I maintain eating two meals of meat, loads of vegetables and a snack of NFyogurt, milk or cottage cheese plus protein powder.

Hi JEY. Do you mind if I ask whether there is a lower bound in DDF on one’s trigger point? eg, might it go below 80 over time? below 70? is there a notion that it can’t go too low (much like the Apple Watch seems to have a notion that no matter how much exercise you do, you can always do more)? or is there a notion that 60, 70, even 80’ish is low enough.

Thanks!

Hi,
There is quite a long answer to your question in the manual DDF101, which is often updated, last in September. This may be new, it's 230 pages now! You can get the new manual for free. It starts:



https://optimisingnutrition.com/non...od-sugar-levels
Then there are charts of distribution of pre-meal triggers, but I can’t copy, why it is best you check the manual or read that article on the blog.

It continues…


Hope this helps

Thanks!

I recall reading some of that before, but not the part about shifting to maintenance once your waist is no more than 1/2 your height and your waking glucose is normal (<100). Hmmm. I was thinking of trying DDF again now that I am not doing a stressful amount of exercise. I guess I have some more reading to do.

Thanks again for responding!

There is always "more reading" to do on Marty's blog!
Today is the day to Restart DDF Baseline, it is worth it to take it step by step in January, all fresh and clean data.

Thanks! I did restart my DDF Baseline, though I am not in the actual challenge. I do get daily emails. I think I have access to all the documents.

Related to my comments on low protein recommendations from Hava, I noticed yesterday that after my low-fat, super high protein “breakfast” yesterday, my BG went up to 100 (from the high 80’s) and never came back down, even 5 hours later. In contrast, after my “breakfast” today, which included more fat (guacamole) and less protein than yesterday (but plenty of protein by normal standards), my 1 hour Post-Prandial BG was a point lower than my Pre-Prandial BG (both in the low 90’s). Hmmm, is it possible the naysayers are correct and too much protein is keeping me fat?

The experiment continues.

one point or 12 points are within the range of meter error, I wouldn’t try to give that difference much predictive power. Melissa is "very small" always trying to lose more…maybe her story will have tips for you how she lost more weight?
https://optimisingnutrition.com/fro...optimal-health/

Thank you for that link. I aspire to reach her “before DDF/ON” body composition!

I just read something that seems new to me - that maybe it is ok to eat on DDF when you are above your trigger but are feeling vulnerably hungry as long as you focus on eating protein and fiber while minimizing fuel (fat, starch, sugar). That makes me feel less stressed about the DDF concept (since exercise and, apparently, protein seemed to keep my BG above my trigger when I tried before). If I can eat steamed fish or skinless chicken breast and lettuce when hungry, I can cope with that long term. I do wonder whether under-consuming Calcium is part of my issue…I am working on that too.

Thank you again for all the generous support you provide here.

NHSB I wrote a nice long answer to eating when still above your trigger…and somehow placed it in my own journal! Or should I have placed it in yours? Whatever, Here you go:
https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...0&postcount=254

Calcium and the other nutrients in vegetables and fruits were definitely too low for me when eating 20g TC. I now have strong nails, thicker hair, do not bruise as easily, and feel all those "low thyroid" symptoms are gone..but am also eating more protein? Whatever the reason, I am more satiated, full on lower calories and lose weight.

A DDF challenge is mostly about "Hunger Training" but also involves Habit Change, the Progress not Perfection attitude, winning the Mind Game, etc. All of Chapter 6 is on Mindset and the psychological impact of data driven fasting.

Thanks again, JEY!

Thank you again for your reply!

I would love to lose another 20 pounds, but that is probably a pipe dream, LOL, but somehow, hope lives.

My A1c is pretty normal-it has been in a range of 4.8 to 5.1 over a long time now. I don’t understand why it changes when nothing is different (and even saw it go over 5 when my weight was slightly down actually), so I asked about it. Dr. Naiman says it depends on what “assays” the lab is using and that these differences don’t mean anything.

I am, however, carb intolerant. It will shoot too high then crash if I eat a terrible thing (for me that would be watermelon, a plain potato), these send my blood sugar into the 300s, I’ve seen 350! That is incredibly abnormal. Dr Naiman says my beta cells are burned out. You have to understand that I’ve been obese my entire life including early childhood, and the alarms started going off when I was just a teen and told my blood sugar was too high. I know they told me I was prediabetic when I was in my 20s, but you know what, back then the line in the sand was something like an A1c of 7 to be dx diabetic. I probably have been diabetic for 40 years. I don’t think there is any hope for my beta cells to work well at this point. So I just live with being low carb.

Oh I forgot-Dr Naiman says fat cells want to be half full! Most depressing thing ever, I wasn’t too happy to hear that one! In other words, I shouldn’t be expecting to ever be skinny, LOL.

But, you never know <shakes fist>. Never give up!!

RE: menopause-I wish!! I bought a book maybe 15 years ago to ‘get ready’ (ugh) because I thought I would go the same path as my mom. I probably crabbed about it before. I was having PMS and hot flashes (in meetings at work) at the same time and had to start HRT (I think last year). I was ready to get off this train ages ago!! I’m cycling now for my 59th birthday in a few days <bashes head on wall>.

I was in the ER for post surgical pain last month, so they did a CT scan and said, “We have to refer you to gynecology.” I said,”They just checked me out b/c my doctor was surprised and needed to make sure nothing was wrong. Everything is fine-I’m just not in menopause yet.” She then narrowed her eyes and told me a doctor she knows delivered a baby to a woman over 60. I was like, “Don’t worry” LOL-

Thank you for the information Janet. I’m not sure the glucose thing would be super meaningful. It’s pretty uneventful-my glucose goes up more when the phone rings or when I go shopping or exercise or something. I once saw a big spike when I was excited for something on TV and was running around to get things done in time to watch. I am ‘excitable’ and have an anxiety issue, so I get these adrenaline reactions a lot. I’ve quit wearing the CGM. It doesn’t tell me anything except when I’ve eaten the wrong thing, and I already know that anyway. I still haven’t noticed anything about when my glucose drops, my graph is kind of moving all the time. Job stress moves my graph around all day long. I just eat twice a day and once in a while I eat once a day, that’s it. I know for sure it drops somewhere around the 60 hour mark if I try to do an extended fast, that one is a dramatic drop down, and that makes me feel like I’m going to faint. I can’t fast like that anymore-I used to before the pandemic when I was heavier. It sometimes drops in the night. Sometimes I see the dawn phenomenon, sometimes I don’t. I don’t know anyone like me.

Are the diabetics following a proper very low carb diet? I honestly don’t have the beta cells to do anything else. I’m not going to tax them by doing much else than that. I’m thinking of dropping the carbs a little bit more by dropping strawberries and raspberries and maybe figure out how to get the carbs down more from yogurt and such. I just keep the berries in the freezer for a treat maybe twice a month. I already quit with the blueberries.

I’ve checked with urine sticks multiple times. People say they don’t work, that is just not true-they absolutely do. I’m in a light ketosis late morning every day and have been since I’ve checked on and off since 2019. If I miss lunch and check, I’ll be in slightly deeper ketosis, but not by much, still fairly light. If I’ve eaten a big meal the night before, I will show no ketones at all and may not until the next day or two. I buy a new bottle when they expire. I don’t eat high fat, so I’m definitely burning body fat. I just don’t eat breakfast and push my lunch out (sometimes missing it due to work craziness). It doesn’t work if I eat snacks of course (the darn chocolate bowl at work-I’ve been really good now all of January). I find it easier to interpret urine sticks than my glucose craziness. My template works for me, but it is just maintenance now.

That said, I’m more thinking about just having a group to hang out with doing the same thing is all. And that weight loss pipe dream-

I will think about it-thank you for the details again!

In order to get enough protein and nutrients, most older women of usual "menopausal age" end up eating eat two meals/day. I need an additional high calcium and protein snack to hit my calcium goals as well. One of the first Keto Lies I abandoned was Keto Lie #7, Fasting for longer is better.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/ket...nger-is-better/

I also gave up "nutritional ketosis" as useless to weight loss, but some use it for Therapeutic ketosis. Everyone finds their own level of carbohydrate that works for them, but one of my goals was to recover metabolic flexibility so I now eat more nutrient dense vegetables, fruit and dairy. Moderate carbohydrate and less fat. I gave very low carb a decade of my life, but adding fiber, micronutrients, and lowering fat allowed me to finally have a healthy BMI.

Ah yes, the protein issue. That was my one big fail I never recognized in the past. My protein target is 160. I don’t always get it in, and I know I’m screwing up if I’m not getting my low fat or fat free free yogurt (or cottage cheese) desserts in. I don’t call them snacks-I just let my meal settle and then eat these.

I think chronic extended fasting is a bad idea. But, I think There is a place for extended fasting. Not for people like you and me now, Janet. But for people that 1) have the fat stores to clear the max 80 cal per pound of fat that the body can extract in 24 hours to meet their caloric needs and 2) are addicted or can’t control their eating. What it does is, it breaks the appetite and drops the fat set point. Then they are ready to start plan. I think that’s cool and effective. But not as a weight loss strategy. They won’t stick the weight loss if they never learn to eat, and you see a lot of that going on in FB fasting groups. Suddenly down 100 pounds in x months!!! Then they are back needing to do it again, ugh…

Nutritional ketosis-never tried that. I was never interested in nerding out on that sort of thing.