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Originally Posted by Ketoneman
doreen T - LOL. Let's do this again in a year and 5 months!
Meme#1 - I don't meant to be critical, but your dog eats too many carbs.
teaser - I'll be combing over what you say, plus I've done some reading on GH. I was completely unaware that it was even released during the day. This quote from a sourced article is a little discouraging however:
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I told my Dad about Meme's dog eating her homework. He says when he got a puppy when he was a kid, he took a book on dog training out of the library. The dog chewed the heck out of the book. The librarian just laughed when he went to return it, didn't bother fining him or anything.
Ketoneman--I'm not sure why you find that article discouraging, at least to the topic of this thread. The question of whether a low carb meal should be had just before going to bed is separate from the question of whether people on higher carb diets should eat carbohydrates just before going to bed.
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In spite of this overall reduction in maximal GH concentration, they saw that total GH concentration by the end of the night was not significantly reduced when compared to the control.
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Here the delay is due to a bout of resistance training sometime in the afternoon, but he suggests that this might be what happens if you eat some carbs before bed. A delay in secretion of growth hormone, perhaps with a decrease in the peak, but normal levels by the end of the night. I don't know that you can rule out an importance to that delayed peak. But at any rate--going back to the original topic of this thread, that delay might not matter to protein synthesis etc., I don't know, but if it's caused by carbohydrate consumption as opposed to exercise, you certainly would have a situation where early in the night you'd be getting more calories from the gut than from endogenous sources. And I'm not sure what the difference in growth hormone would be eating ketogenically, but you'd also be getting more calories more directly from dietary sources during absorption vs. going to bed fasted. That's a given, whatever might be going on with the exact pattern of growth hormone secretion.
Theories about what might be going on with insulin or growth hormone may be interesting, and may give us insights as to why a particular diet, or intermittent fasting or meal timing might work--but ultimately the question is whether these approaches do work, if people follow them. That caloriesincontext blog has this to say;
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And while I hate to be the bearer of bad news, it’s not the carbohydrates, or the high-fructose corn syrup, or animal products, or post-agricultural foods that are making you or anyone else overweight and/or obese. It’s simply too many calories. Similarly, it’s not the elimination of these foods, per se, that promotes weight loss. Rather, it’s a reduction in calories overall (be it through arbitrary dietary avoidances or what have you) that is the final arbiter of how many pounds you lose. End of story.
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It's not a profound thing that's been said here, although it is a truism, if you throw in a few more words that I think are probably assumed here. This could be reduced to something along the lines of
It's a reduction in net calorie intake (calories eaten less calories lost to the system, whether burned for energy, malabsorbed, excreted, etc) that is the final arbiter of how many pounds you lose.
Even here "how many pounds you lose" should say "how many calories you lose," since water etc. can contribute quite a bit to weight loss and contains no metabolizable energy.
The "or what have you" included in the parentheses is a concession, if one that's supposed to be shrugged off. I personally would fill that in with
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The liberal availability of these fatty acids in the blood promotes satiety and inhibits hunger.
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And throw in the possibility that in free living subjects, at a given calorie intake, overweight individuals might find not only that they are less hungry while eating low carb, but also more energetic. Kevin Hall has a recent study that throws that into question--but admits in the paper about that study that the controlled nature of the study and the clamped exercise could possibly mask a tendency for people on a ketogenic diet to be more prone to spontaneous activity in a more natural setting.
In my personal experience--making the single assumption that "carbohydrates promote insulin which promotes fat storage" hasn't gotten me ripped, no eight percent body fat here. It did however stop the development of obesity in its tracks, and where I used to have to fight to be merely overweight instead of slightly obese, now I get to fight to be lean instead of overweight, I've been consistently twenty pounds lighter since then.
When I went with calorie restriction as my main approach to weight maintenance, I failed miserably. And now--when I add calorie restriction to low carb, it's certainly successful for weight loss, which it always has been for me--but as far as keeping me consistently below what seems to be a new low carb set point about twenty pounds lower than my higher carb set point--again I fail, but not so miserably, because failure means that I sometimes hit 170 pounds, rather than 190 (and counting).
Back to that blogger;
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Ultimately, most weight loss diets that promote a certain way of eating fail over the long-term. Why is that? Despite the numerous diets and all their differences, again, they share certain similarities that promote weight regain. These similarities are:
1) They put too much emphasis on food choices rather than the caloric deficit, and
2) They do not take into account the dieter’s personal preferences, goals, and needs.
Thus, couple these two flaws together and you have a recipe for certain disaster.
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Number two... okay, why not. But number one--in my experience, and I'm not alone in this, the most successful approach to "caloric deficit" I've experienced came through putting "too much emphasis" on food choices. Even when I'm calorie restricting--maybe especially when I'm intentionally calorie restricting. I might be able to temporarily satisfy myself with as little as 1600 calories, if it's mostly egg, lean steak, salmon, that sort of thing. If it's pork rinds, sour cream and cheese--perfectly good low carb foods--then it's a no go. And 1600 calories of pizza and ice cream? Don't make me laugh.