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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Dec-15-09, 13:19
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,934
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default Diabetes Ornish Style

Oooh... this is good!

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2...d-fat-free.html
Quote:
Let me tell you about my low-fat experience from 20 years ago.

At the time, I was living in Cleveland, Ohio, and served on the faculty at a large metropolitan university-affiliated hospital, supervising fellows-in-training and developing high-tech cath lab procedures like directional athererectomy and excimer laser coronary angioplasty. (Yes, another life.)

I was concerned about personal heart disease risk, though I knew next to nothing about lipids and coronary risk prediction outside of the little I learned in training and what the drug industry promoted.

I heard Dr. Dean Ornish talk while attending the American College of Cardiology meetings in Atlanta. Dr. Ornish spoke persuasively about the dangers of fat in the diet and how he "reversed" coronary disease using a low-fat, no added oils, no meat, vegetarian diet that included plenty of whole grains. So I thought I'd give it a try.

I eliminated all oils; I removed all meat, eggs, and fish from my diet. I shunned all nuts. I ate only low-fat products like low-fat yogurt and cottage cheese; and focused on vegetables, fruit, and whole grains. Beans and brown or wild rice were a frequent staple. I loved oatmeal cookies--low-fat, of course!

After one year of this low-fat program, I had gained a total of 31 lbs, going from 155 lbs to 186 lbs. I reassessed some basic labs:

HDL 28 mg/dl
Triglycerides 336 mg/dl
Blood sugar 151 mg/dl (fasting)


I became a diabetic. All through this time, I was also jogging. I ran on the beautiful paths along the Chagrin River in suburban Cleveland for miles north and south. I ran 5 miles per day most days of the week.

It was diabetes that hit me alongside the head: I was eating low-fat meticulously, exercising more than 90% of the population, yet I got fat and diabetic!

I have since changed course in diet. Last time I checked, my lipid values on NO statin agent:

HDL 67 mg/dl
Triglycerides 57 mg/dl
Blood sugar 91 mg/dl

That was my lesson that fat restriction is a destructive, misguided notion. The data since then have confirmed that restricting total fat is unnecessary, even undesirable, when fat calories are replaced by carbohydrate calories.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Dec-15-09, 13:40
JL53563's Avatar
JL53563 JL53563 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,209
 
Plan: The Real Human Diet
Stats: 225/165/180 Male 5'8"
BF:?/?/8.6%
Progress: 133%
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Default

Very good!
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Dec-15-09, 15:10
deb34 deb34 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,902
 
Plan: IF/Keto OMAD
Stats: 236.9/214.1/199 Female 66 inches
BF:Why yes/it/is !!!
Progress: 60%
Default

yipeeee!!!
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Dec-15-09, 19:28
mike_d's Avatar
mike_d mike_d is offline
Grease is the word!
Posts: 8,475
 
Plan: PSMF/IF
Stats: 236/181/180 Male 72 inches
BF:disappearing!
Progress: 98%
Location: Alamo city, Texas
Default

Most would say it's "purely anecdotal." I think it's past time to practice "evidence-based medicine"
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  #5   ^
Old Wed, Dec-16-09, 09:30
M Levac M Levac is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 6,498
 
Plan: VLC, mostly meat
Stats: 202/200/165 Male 5' 7"
BF:
Progress: 5%
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Default

Put Ornish in jail. No, seriously. Giving that kind of advice considering the consequence is criminal. Good for Dr. Davis to have caught it in time.
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  #6   ^
Old Wed, Dec-16-09, 15:01
zanjabil's Avatar
zanjabil zanjabil is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 120
 
Plan: Mostly meat
Stats: 215/193/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: DC
Default

Yeah, I did the Ornish woe eating for months, felt terrible, gained a little weight had GI issues, was crabby, and my family hated me THis reminds me I need to get rid of the books I have by him.
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  #7   ^
Old Wed, Dec-16-09, 16:04
Angeline's Avatar
Angeline Angeline is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,423
 
Plan: Atkins (loosely)
Stats: -/-/- Female 60
BF:
Progress: 40%
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Default

Ornish would say that he simply didn't cut enough fat out.

I like Dr. Davis comment further below, responding to someone who had good results with Ornish

Quote:
Kurt's different response might be explained by being an ApoE4 homo- or heterozygote. I am an ApoE3 homozygote. In addition, there are genetic variants in CETP, hepatic lipase, lipoprotein lipase, and others that can modify the response.


I think we need to remind ourselves over and over that we are not all carbon copies of each other and that different people respond in different ways. Maybe that's one of the reason why so little progress has been made in understand the causes of obesity and disease. This difference in responses is not accounted for in various studies.

Last edited by Angeline : Wed, Dec-16-09 at 16:15.
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Dec-16-09, 16:44
Squarecube's Avatar
Squarecube Squarecube is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 877
 
Plan: atkins/paleo/IF
Stats: 186.5/159.0/160 Male 5' 11"
BF:
Progress: 104%
Location: NYC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zanjabil
Yeah, I did the Ornish woe eating for months, felt terrible, gained a little weight had GI issues, was crabby, and my family hated me THis reminds me I need to get rid of the books I have by him.



I've read here and there that his program includes meditation, and that any reduction in heart disease may result from stress reduction. I've never read Orishes books - but is that true? Does he put emphasis on stress reduction?
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Dec-16-09, 16:55
Nancy LC's Avatar
Nancy LC Nancy LC is offline
Experimenter
Posts: 25,934
 
Plan: DDF
Stats: 202/185.4/179 Female 67
BF:
Progress: 72%
Location: San Diego, CA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecube
I've read here and there that his program includes meditation, and that any reduction in heart disease may result from stress reduction. I've never read Orishes books - but is that true? Does he put emphasis on stress reduction?

Yup.

I think changing people's diet from the typical diet is probably a good thing. I mean, if you follow Ornish correctly you probably reduce your carbs if you're eating standard American fare, so it might well help some people over what they were doing before. But better doesn't mean optimal.
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  #10   ^
Old Thu, Dec-17-09, 09:52
capmikee's Avatar
capmikee capmikee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 5,160
 
Plan: Weston A. Price, GFCF
Stats: 165/133/132 Male 5' 5"
BF:?/12.7%/?
Progress: 97%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

I've never read Ornish, but from the emphasis on eating more grains and less sugar that typical "healthy" diets have, I would expect that it involves eating less fructose.
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Dec-17-09, 11:53
zanjabil's Avatar
zanjabil zanjabil is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 120
 
Plan: Mostly meat
Stats: 215/193/150 Female 63in
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: DC
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecube
I've read here and there that his program includes meditation, and that any reduction in heart disease may result from stress reduction. I've never read Orishes books - but is that true? Does he put emphasis on stress reduction?


Yes.
That's what I DO like about his program. I have one book called Love & Survival; The scientific basis for the healing power of intimacy which I do plan on keeping, I haven't read it yet though.
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