I so totally understand your conflicts. If I let my husband read your posts he would say it is me, not you.

Sometimes, I think I have read too much and know too much to get piece of mind!

Regarding the brain fog. Yes, yes, yes!!! I also would lose an extreme amount of weight very quickly on Atkins (and would do so again if I stuck to it), but I got so bad at work that I had to up my carbs. My boss would ask me questions or just try to converse about a client and I would look at him like he was speaking a foreign language. And forget about hiking. I couldn't even do a mile even though I was working out six days a week, I had no stamina or endurance. The thing to remember about low carb is that it was originally meant for survival, despite what others say. Think about it...maybe if primitive man had some carbs, they would have invented fire more quickly.

Anyway, I have had to go my own way. Yes, I am impatient to lose weight. I tell myself "I will lose all I want and then do something else." yeah, right!

So, for the first time in years and years and years, I am trying to be content with a slow weight loss. I am still watching the carbs, but using my own body and own experiences as a road map. With the intention being that I will eventually get down to where I need to be and then with what I am doing I will still be able to maintain weight. I guess you could say that I am looking to never being on another diet, but also not depriving myself all day, every day until XX time.

The plain and simple truth is: I like all the foods that you are not supposed to have on a low carb diet. And I don't want to go through the rest of my life saying "bad food, bad food."

Anyway, are you working out yet? I found that weight lifting really helps in a lot more ways than aerobic. The last time, I didn't even start aerobic until I had lost all the weight I wanted to, but I did do weights six days a week, alternating upper and lower body. and I am doing it again. Not as easy this time though.

So, just wanted to let you know you are not alone on the way you have been feeling. And it is simply not enough carbs. And Atkins and others makes it clear that some people do not do so well on the very low carbs and will have to up it. Basically, the very reason you lose weight so quickly and easily (as I do) is the very reason you get foggy and headaches etc.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jerry12
[B]Lisa N

Congrats on your success! You raise some great points, and I am interested in your responses....

> First; how long have you tried to stick it out with the brain fog problem?

The longest I have lasted on 20 g a day, is for about 4 months straight. The brain fog never went away for me. The best I can do is minimize it, as I explained above. I read that most peoples brains burn ketones very effeciently for fuel, even Atkins states its the brains preferred fuel. However, there is a certain % of people whereas this is not true, I must fall into this category, because a good dose of carbs brings me right back to normal. But I am open to listening to other possible causes.

I think Kristine addressed the other possible causes; low electrolytes or a lower blood sugar than your body is comfortable with. If you have ruled out the first two, then I still think it's likely that it's another way your body is using to send you the message that you are losing faster than it can handle.


> Third; do you take any supplements on a regular basis?

In the past, I used to take many supplements, many of them Atkins. However, when I experimented by not taking them, I felt no better or worse. This time I am taking a green powder drink called super food, by Garden of Eaten. It consists of a ton of greens and is highly nutritious... I felt this would be a more natural way to get nutrition. BTW, if I was to add supplements to this, which ones would you say are most critical when loosing weight?

I'd say potassium and a calcium/magnesium supplement would be my first picks.

> Fourth; is it possible that you have a sensitivity to arachidonic acid? This is found in red meat and eggs and those who are particularly sensitive to if find that it can make them feel miserable.

I have read about this before, but have not paid enough attention to it. How can I find out if this is the case with me? Is there a test? Chicken does not bother me at all, but red meat and eggs do..... is this an indication of this condition? Hmmmm.....

Yes, usually that's the main indication. You feel bad after you eat foods that contain arachidonic acid.

> The solution to that would be to either avoid foods that contain arachidonic acid or to take fish oil with every meal that contains those foods.

Does the fish oil negate the arachidonic acid? Any paticular type? What about Flax oil, I take a TBSP of it everyday?

Fish oil is what the Eades' recommend to counteract the effect of arachidonic acid and report that it's very effective. I don't have my book handy as I've loaned it out at the present, but I believe that they suggest 1000 mg. after each meal that contains red meat or eggs. Flax oil is not the same.

> You mention that with low carb you are forced into a high animal products intake. That doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

Can you please suggest some foods that I can eat, considering I just may have this sensitivity to arachidonic acid, allergic to seafoods and feel wrotten when I eat Soy, or any bean products? Other than a few types of nuts, I just can't think of much else? This is why I struggle so hard with this WOE, long term.

Are you allergic to all fish or just to shellfish? If it's just shellfish, there's a wide variety of fish that you can add into your diet including tuna and salmon which are natural sources of fish oil. There's also pork and chicken which can be fixed many different ways.

Although I have been lucky in the past with 30 lbs a month average weight loss, I will not be dissapointed if I only loose 20 lbs a month this time. That is still considered fast by most peoples standards.

It's not just age or even gender that gets you here. Repeatedly losing and then re-gaining weight takes a toll on your metabolism and makes you more resistant to losing weight each successive time you try. I personally wouldn't recommend losing more than 15 lbs in a month (that's 1/2 lb a day!...still quite fast by most standards) except for the first part of induction. I think you'll find that if you take it more slowly, your body will thank you for it.

Quiettone

> I so totally understand your conflicts. If I let my husband read your posts he would say it is me, not you.

Glad to hear I am not alone... but I sympathize with you too, as we both have a good tool for weight loss, but struggle to use it.

> Sometimes, I think I have read too much and know too much to get piece of mind!

The ol adage... the onlything worse than no knowledge, is having knowledge and not using it! I feel the same way, sometimes I read so much.... of course now that I am motivated to start this again, I felt like I needed to read "The Ketogenic Diet" book. I just downloaded it for $29, its 350 pages.... I hope there is some good pointers in there.... I read the first 100 pages and so far the author can not find any supporting documents that ketosis makes one loose weight faster than eating the same amount of calories on other programs. That sure set me back, but then again, my experience sure tells me differently.

> Regarding the brain fog. Yes, yes, yes!!! I also would lose an extreme amount of weight very quickly on Atkins (and would do so again if I stuck to it), but I got so bad at work that I had to up my carbs. My boss would ask me questions or just try to converse about a client and I would look at him like he was speaking a foreign language. And forget about hiking. I couldn't even do a mile even though I was working out six days a week, I had no stamina or endurance. The thing to remember about low carb is that it was originally meant for survival, despite what others say. Think about it...maybe if primitive man had some carbs, they would have invented fire more quickly.

I know exactly what you mean...sometimes when I read, I read the same sentence over 10x.... its like my brain is short circuited. And I consider myself somewhat of a hazard on the road. One time, I was stopped at a red light..... I looked around and noticed the light had turned green.... I got confused what to do, does this mean stop, or go? I went to the gas pedal, then the brake pedal, then the gas, etc.... Very weird stuff and sometimes scary, hence my concern this time.

> Anyway, I have had to go my own way. Yes, I am impatient to lose weight. I tell myself "I will lose all I want and then do something else." yeah, right!

Well, I have failed miserably at maintenance...but I do beleive I learned a lot from each failure.... I have new plans for maintenance, but I don't even want to deal with it now...because I need to loose weight first, and like you, I need to see results or I just get discourage, success motivates me. I can't help that.

> So, for the first time in years and years and years, I am trying to be content with a slow weight loss. I am still watching the carbs, but using my own body and own experiences as a road map. With the intention being that I will eventually get down to where I need to be and then with what I am doing I will still be able to maintain weight. I guess you could say that I am looking to never being on another diet, but also not depriving myself all day, every day until XX time.

Yep, thats why my new maintenance plan is not daily low carbs....

> The plain and simple truth is: I like all the foods that you are not supposed to have on a low carb diet. And I don't want to go through the rest of my life saying "bad food, bad food."

yes, and I do beleive that saying fresh fruits are bad is not a healthy decision, although I do agree for some people its mandatory.

> Anyway, are you working out yet? I found that weight lifting really helps in a lot more ways than aerobic. The last time, I didn't even start aerobic until I had lost all the weight I wanted to, but I did do weights six days a week, alternating upper and lower body. and I am doing it again. Not as easy this time though.

I agree with you 100%. I am just starting to work out again. I plan to do hardcore weightlifting.... I want to tear as much muscle fiber as possible, so that I am constantly sore, and once a muscle repairs itself, I tear it up again.... It's my beleif this constant tearing of muscle tissue causes two tremendous fat loss benefits....first it forces the release of Growth Horomone, which is a major fat burner, and secondly the tissue that is torn needs to repair and it takes a ton energy to heal these muscles...so after you lift, you can burn a ton of calories for the next 24 - 48 hrs. It makes your metabolism burn hot. The other nice thing about weight lifting is its a very inneficient exercise. (which is a good think when you are trying to loose fat) Most all body fat is lossed through heat. The more efficeint your body is at exercise, the less calories you burn. If you are a person who sweats more than most when lifting weights then your in for an easy ride, because a majority of the energy expended to lift weights, is for heat, not for the task of lifting the weight. A very inefficent body may use 10 BTu's of heat for every 1 BTU's burned to perform the task. On the other hand, an efficient body may only burn 3 BTU's of heat for the same task. That means the inneficient person burns 3x more fuel to perform the same task. I have this in my favor as I sweat like crazy when I work out. For example, a hardcore run on the stairmaster for 45 minutes, I can consume 3 full gallons of water.... while the average person may consume 1/2 gallon. This water is never urinated out, its all just replacing sweat! This is how I can loose weight so fast.... of course this is when I am healthy, not injured, have the time, not traveling, and I am in the right mindset. Sorry for going on a tangent..... I have so many spreadsheets full of energy calculations regarding weight loss, I should publish them. This is a natural for me as I am an energy engineer.

> So, just wanted to let you know you are not alone on the way you have been feeling. And it is simply not enough carbs.

Yep, and I am not sure I can go through this again.... I may need to experiment with other similar approaches, of course never OD on carbs, but maybe 100 a day is practical.....

> And Atkins and others makes it clear that some people do not do so well on the very low carbs and will have to up it. Basically, the very reason you lose weight so quickly and easily (as I do) is the very reason you get foggy and headaches etc.

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head. As with everything in life, compromises, compromises, compromises....
Lisa

> I'd say potassium and a calcium/magnesium supplement would be my first picks.

Good thing, I take a product from GNC called Calcium Complete, mainly calc and magn. I take 6 - 8 tabs a day...it actually helps my joints since the Calcium is in the form of calcium carbonate.

> Yes, usually that's the main indication. You feel bad after you eat foods that contain arachidonic acid.

Wonderful, another thing to deal with.....well this leads me to beleive that LC is not for me, because it limits my protein intake to chicken. Its the only animal product I can eat and feel good....and its hard to only eat chicken... I hate all seafood, and that makes LC even harder.

> Are you allergic to all fish or just to shellfish? If it's just shellfish, there's a wide variety of fish that you can add into your diet including tuna and salmon which are natural sources of fish oil. There's also pork and chicken which can be fixed many different ways.

I am allergic to shellfish, but I literally hate all seafood...I just can't over come that barrier.


> I personally wouldn't recommend losing more than 15 lbs in a month (that's 1/2 lb a day!...still quite fast by most standards) except for the first part of induction. I think you'll find that if you take it more slowly, your body will thank you for it.

Yep, this time around, I will let the chips fall where ever they land.....

Bill

Bill...unless you have a dislike for it or don't eat it for religious reasons, pork is not considered a red meat; things like ham, fresh sausage and pork roasts should be okay to eat and might give you a nice change of pace from chicken. I'm not much of a fish lover, either, but I will eat tuna with some onion, celery and lots of mayonnaise (you'd be surprised what you can eat when it's smothered in mayonnaise) and salmon is very good grilled with lemon butter and garlic.
You might want to get a copy of the Eades' book, Protein Power. In it they give a recipe for a marinade to be used on beef that helps remove a lot of the arachidonic acid. You have to marinate the meat overnight or for at least 12 hours, but it's very tasty. I just can't remember the marinade off the top of my head. I beleive it was mostly red wine and olive oil and made the meat very tender and flavorful. You could also try the fish oil capsules and see if it does you any good.
After all, you'll never know if it helps you or not unless you give it a try.
Besides; it seems you'll be limited to chicken (or whatever protein source you feel you can tolerate) whether you low carb or not. The only difference is that on low carb you won't be eating a lot of high glycemic carbs that your body also can't seem to tolerate in large amounts.
After all is said and done, you'll have to decide for yourself which path seems best to you. It seems there are challenges with either choice.

that might help you and others.

One of the primary things that I am doing, that is very hard for me, is no snacking. I have major carb cravings from 2-7 pm every day and if I could, I would eat constantly during that time. Nothing satisfies, nothing makes me feel full. So, one of my goals is to stop that dead, cold turkey. I am eating only three meals a day. I figure I made it through the first 17 years of my life eating only three meals a day, so it ain't gonna' kill me!

Another thing I am doing is instead of saying "I can only have this or that each day" I am breaking it into meals. I look only at the meal I am on. I actually got that from a friend who has lost over 50 pounds and maintained it for two years. His doctor put him on a diet of which the primary rule was only 40 grams of carbs per meal. He can have whatever he wants (although they prefer he eat healthy fats), but he has to limit his carbs to 40 per meal. This seems to be working for him. And he has used it to maintain the weight he lost. He was a huge pasta freak!

Hope these two tidbits can give you a starting place.

I have thought about doing the Zone but it seems so complicated. At least Atkins is simple to use.

Well, after only a week, I have surrended the VERY LC WOE. Two main issues I just can't deal with right now.

The first, which I often forget about when I am not LC eating, is constipation. I take Metamucil every night of my life, I know the consequences of being constipated. But when I low carb, it does not matter how many doses of metamucil I take, I still am not regular, this adds to fatigue and probably brain fog.

The second reason is the overall weakness and brain fog that accompanies very low carb eating. I also am struggling with the foods that I can eat..... unfortunately for me, very limiting.

However, I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water here. I plan to modify my program and keep carbs restricted to about 100 a day. But I will monitor my ketosis and be sure my work outs keep me in some form of ketosis.....then at least half of my carbs will come from pure glucose so it can be fed directly into my muscles for energy without release of insulin. This is a new method I compiled together after reading "The ketogenic diet" book. Of course weight loss will be slower, but as many posters pointed out, this will is a good thing.... as long as I keep seeing progress, I will be motivated. I have to make these compromises as I just don't have the ability to withstand some of the rigors of VERY LC eating. Hopefully this compromise will be successful.

I am curious about the glucose and the lack of insulin response. I may re post to get input on this subject. Thank you all for your support....

Jerry

If you permanently have constipation problems you might want to get that checked out. If you always have that no matter what you eat you may have chronic candida or some gastro problem. This could also be related to the brain fog.