I just got to this point in the book, page 95:Well! I guess she told us. That explains why so many people on Atkins have complained of losing the initial weight then stalling. I am probably suffering from tunnelvision, but I don't recall that's being a big complaint here on the TSP forum. I know it wasn't an issue with me. I lost the initial water weight then continued to drop fat until I hit my first stall (set point). I have since broken through the stall, I hope.

So what do you think? How far have you gotten through the book. So far, I am finding it different and more forceful that the first book. In the first she seemed to take it easier on us. But now it's all or nothing. But I like it, I think.

One thing I know for certain, I'm going to have to reread it with a highlighter.

;-Deb

hi Deb,

I confess that I don't have SPII yet, so perhaps Dr. S. has addressed this elsewhere in her book. Just wanted to point out that yes, certain cells in the body lack mitochondria, which are necessary in order to use ketones in the Krebs (citric acid) cycle for energy. These cells require glucose instead.

I notice she uses the starvation model as her example In the case of a ketogenic diet, eg Atkins, or that used to treat epilepsy in young children, the person is consuming adequate protein in addition to the fat, and generally a minimal amount of carbohydrate too .. eg 20 grams. But even in the absence of any carbs from the diet, the liver will produce necessary glucose from proteins .. this is called gluconeogenesis. If the person is starving, then the liver will break down proteins from the body itself .. starting with recycled dead cells, etc, then muscle tissue. If adequate protein is consumed in the diet, then that is what will be used instead. So, even in the case of starvation, the body is never running 100% on ketones; there will always be a nominal amount of glucose being produced to supply those cells that need it.

It's a very long article, but if anyone has the time and is interested, this whole process is explained very well in Chuck Forsberg's Adiposity 101.

Doreen

Thanks, Doreen. I kind of thought that, but I wanted to put her comments forward without rebuttal to see what happens.

Her explanation is actually one I had never heard before. And what you described is all over the forum.

Also, I still wonder why some people drop weight during the first couple weeks, then stop for a protracted length of time.

I think Dr. S's book is going to cause comment.

;-Deb

I have read the book at a furious pace and need to go back with a highliter as well. The interesting part for me is her discusion of Cortisol and Adreniline. These two major hormones in the body that we must balance with the insulin to become healthy and well. Some of her ideas seem to be more defined and she is giving precise instruction, which I believe was lacking in the last book. Everything seemed to be out there with no concrete definition. I must say I like the new book. She is going to put a few wrinkles in some of my dimples as I now have to modify my approach to Schwarzbien. All in all I would say there will be a lot of discussion. I can't wait. Let the games begin.

Reading her new book is certainly eye-opening. If I read it right, then she does NOT agree with Suzanne Somers and the food combining principles she advocates. And she does not seem to agree with Dr. Atkins and his ketosis theories either. It has been a difficult read, but from what I understand, Dr. Atkins got a little bit stricter in his latest book, too. Evidently, people were eating lots more food than they needed, as long as it was low or no carbs. Dr. Schwarbein is strict, but you know what, I'm sick of feeling unhealthy and fat, and I'm going to do my best to really follow her plan.

Good For you! I have to say this is not a bad way to live. We eat often and we eat well. Look to this froum for some good support if you need it. I have been helped many times by the experiences of others.

I don't like the new book at all.

I don't agree with a lot of what she says, one in particular, her demonizing dairy products, particularly milk.

Many studies (not funded by the Dairy Council), now show milk to be a good low glycemic food. Studies are now showing that four servings dairy (and that includes MILK) per day lessen our fat cells and contribute to weight loss.

Please read the July 2002 issue of Readers Digest for a great article on the benefits of milk and weight loss for a fascinating read. And no, the article is not funded by the National Dairy Council. It's really a great work of research.

Also, since I stopped calcium supplements and eat lots of dairy products instead, my pms has improved incredibly.

I don't believe that hard cheeses are "damaged fats" and I am concerned that Schwarzbein is turning into a fanatic. I wonder how much of her statements on various issues have scientific backing.

Even Gary Taubes now famous article in the Times "Has it all been a big fat lie", showed that research into ketosis shows ketosis is not harmful.

I myself do not follow a ketotic diet. I follow the principles I learned in a wonderful book titled "The Insulin Resistance Diet". only I ignore all the low fat recommendations in the book and eat plenty of fat.

However I do "link and balance" proteins and carbs, as the books suggests. This has made such a huge difference in my health and it's something I can follow forever.

Please read the reviews on amazon. com. The book really isn't expensive and is worth buying.

I'm sorry if I pissed off any hard-core Schwarzbein followers with this message. I apologize if I have. I think her first book was on the right track, but this one really disappointed me.

I believe low carb, in whatever form you follow, is the way, but Schwarzbein's militant stance on some issues is just hard for me to swallow.

Spirit, I tend to agree with you on the new book. I, too, have found it a bit confusing and more "radical" in approach. I have just recently switched from Atkins to Schwarzbein and have "designed" my own approach to this method of low carb. I am using her daily carb guidelines and approach to combination eating but ignoring her adamancy to no sweeteners and processed foods. I am losing slowly but surely and I am sure there is some much needed healing going on too so can't complain!
I, like yourself, do eat fat and it has not afffected my efforts. I am going to read the book you recommended and also I wonder if you could provide me with a day or two sample menus of what you eat. Your weight loss is impressive. Since we are on the "same page", I would like to see how my eating compares to yours.

Hi Jakebabe...

I would post menus, but honestly, my eating is so varied from day to day...here is what my eating is based on according to the principles in the Insulin Resistance Diet.

I never eat more than two carb servings per meal. You can't eat carbs alone, you have to balance the carbs with two protein servings. You can eat less carbs. In fact for me, the less carbs the better, although I do enjoy my carbs throughout the day.

For example, if I eat two slices of bread for breakfast (2 carb servings, or 30 g. carb), I must balance it with 2 protein servings (say maybe 2 oz. cheddar cheese for 14 g. protein).

You can eat protein alone, unlike Schwarzbein who now tells you not to, but you can't eat carbs alone. Makes sense, as the fat and protein in protein foods lowers the glycemic index in the carbs.

Oh, there's a two hour "fat storing" window the authors discuss, where once you eat your carbs and protein, that's it for carbs for two hours. They explain how in this period of time, your body will convert the carbs to fat if you keep eating and od'ing on carbs.

I know it sounds confusing, I'm not the best at explaining these things, but it's really a very easy concept, one the authors call "link and balancing."

There is no limit on protein, but of course limits on carbs per meal.

The book is an easy read, unlike Schwarzbein's newest baby.

Oh, milk and all dairy products are allowed in unlimited quantities, as are legumes, due to their high fiber and low glycemic values. Of course I don't go around drinking two quarts of milk a day, but it's nice to know I can pour a glass of milk to drink with my low carb flax cake (yum), and not stress over the carbs.

Milk and cheese are allowed this way because of their low glycemic index, the protein content balancing whatever carb content there is.

All veg except starchy ones like potatoes and corn, are allowed in unlimited quantitites and encouraged for their fiber and phytochemicals (cancer fighting properties). This part I really enjoy, since I'm a "quantity" eater. That was what I really enjoyed about Schwarzbein's plan as well.

The authors encourage low fat eating, but just ignore them and focus on the "link and balance" way of eating carbs with protein.

I love this way of eating. I can really eat anything I want, it's just a new way of eating it, always balancing my carbs with proteins. For example I went over someones home for dinner. They had cornish game hen, potatoes, salad and dessert. I had brought broccoli with low carb cheese sauce. So I had the game hen, maybe half a big potato, my broccoli with sauce, and I skipped dessert (icecream). I didn't feel deprived. I really wanted that potato, I ate it and didn't feel deprived at all.

Of course the book does a much better way of explaining it, and it's really less complicated than I'm making it. Just remember to ignore all the awful low fat recommendations. The book would be perfect if not for that, but we all tweak our plans anyway!

I really think you'll enjoy the book. It's a program you can really live with.

I like to think of this program as a cross between low glycemic index eating (like Sugar Busters), and reduced carbing.

It works for me.

The issue with eating protien alone has more to do with the adrenal glands than with the insulin problem. So if someone has healthy adrenal glands and insulin sensitive, eating protien alone should not be a problem. The same goes with eating fruit alone. I know I have had adrenal burn out in the past, I would say healing now, and I'm most likely Insulin Resistant, so I do believe I have to be very, very careful there. I don't agree with limiting protein as she suggests, I find when I have done that on the Low fat, Low protien plans I crave protein very much and I need it very much. I eat what my body tells me to on that end, and I do better that way.
As to the milk, many people do have problems with it, and I'm sure limiting it is to help heal sensitivities. I do agree that milk is good and can help many, many things. I find that low carbing I would rather have my carbs in a fiber source than in a non fiber source so that is the choice I make, but my kids and my hubby can drink milk, and I buy whole milk, not 2%. I have actually found them all drinking less milk than we ever did before and if I'm not careful we are wasting it. . (They can have all the milk they want so they are limiting it on their own.)
I agree with the cheese issue, cheese has been around for years and other cultures have done well with these good aged cheese. I eat lots of cheese so I hope I balance my calcium intake that I used to get drinking milk by that. I have noticed in other threads that cheese can cause a stall, so maybe that is what she is seeing that stalls happen when lots of cheese is consumed.
I do wish she would state more of what she sees in practice to explain her reasons, I think that would help greatly in understanding where she is coming from. I do like the new book but I'm still following to old book outline, I figure that is what I need the most at the time. I think the new book is good to help people who may have a normal system in one aspect and not in another and they are having trouble with their goals. It may just fine tune it a bit more.
I had chili last night, lots of legumes and I had my first bout of heartburn since I started LC, so I still have to limit those. Obviously there is more to carbs than the gycemic effect. My heartburn was the first thing I noticed to leave when I started this just last July.
One other note, it sounds like the idea with the Insulin resistant diet is similar to body for Life in the balancing carbs and protien? Is that right spirit? My doctor told me that if I did that I would need to increase the protien and decrease the carb for my particular situation. (not trying to debate here, just trying to gather info. The more info the better in my opinion. The best thing with all these different plans is that there seems to be something for everyone and their lifestyles.)
Tanya

Spirit, I hope you read this!
I finished reading the "Insulin Resistance Diet" last night and I find it most intriguing. I can see your point in how it can easily be merged in with the SP plan.
Are you still following this plan (I see you have not posted in a month or so) and if so, is it still working well for you?
Any further tips on what to do or things to watch out for since you are the experienced kid on the block?

Jakebabe

Hi there!

Right now I am probably reading every low carb book on the market. I felt so much better eating this way, I wanted to educate myself as much as possible. I must say, once you start reading, the diverse opinions on how to low carb by various authors are very interesting. But the important bottom line is, no matter how you do it, it's just important to cut carbs. That's the bottom line in mostly all the books.

One book I read recently, Life Without Bread was truly wonderful. Although I had been using certain elements of the Insulin Resistance Diet, I realized that even though I was following the general principles, I was still eating too many carbs in one day. On the Insulin Resistance plan it's easy to do that, because the emphasis is on carb/protein combining, not total carbs for the day. This kind of scared me, because diabetes is rampant in my family, and I felt the tug to lower my carbs.

So now I'm following what I learned in Life Without Bread, still eating all the low carb veggies, proteins and healthy fats I want, but limiting my carbs. He uses a concept called "Bread Units" for counting. Very easy to do.

I think it's important for all of us to keep tweaking and evolving our own individual plans. Although I felt great on my last plan, I feel even greater on this one, probably because I lowered my carbs and I'm so genetically carb-resistant, due to all the diabetes in my family.

So, if you want to invest another few bucks (it's not expensive book), check out Life Without Bread By Wolfgang Lutz. He's an MD who practiced low carb on his patients for over 40 years in Europe, long before it even became popular here.

Spirit

My dad really liked that book too. I gave it too him after I read it knowing he would like it.
He makes the SP too hard :-)
Life without bread just was easier for him to comprehend..
But he still makes it all to hard for him.. lOL
Poofie!

Hi all.
I`ve read your post with interest.
Going to buy Wolfgang Lutz and Insuline Resistance Diet.

I startet SP two weeks ago. What I miss is fruit.
And I have problems squeezing in the healthy fats.

Well, I´m still learning.

Good luck to all of you,
Elke

You shouldn't have to be missing fruit on Schwarzbein..
its one of your carbs definately allowed.. although you don't want to be eating more of that than Veggies due to the sugar.
But there is no reason not to be eating fruit if you enjoy it.
Nedra