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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Aug-31-02, 23:41
chevi97's Avatar
chevi97 chevi97 is offline
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Posts: 39
 
Plan: CKD
Stats: 38%/13%/8%
BF:13%
Progress: 174%
Location: Sac, CA
Default CKD Summed up

Application of a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet
You should have read the first part of this article to get an idea of what you're in for, so I'm assuming you have. In this article, I'm assuming fat loss with minimal muscle loss is your goal. While ketogenic diets can be effective for muscle gain with minimal fat, I don't feel they are optimal for this purpose, what is optimal for this goal is another article.

So, how do you set up this diet to lose that pudge? There are a few ways, but since it's me writing this article you're going to get my opinion of the best way to set it up.

OK, so give me the plan already...

The basic plan is this, days 1-5, conveniently days Monday - Friday (although the actual days don’t matter) are your ketogenic/low carb days, and Saturday and Sunday are your carb-load days. Nothing new there. Here's where I get a little different, on Monday and Tuesday in order to get into ketosis quicker your ratios will be different, with more fat and less protein and trace-no carbs. On Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday you will go to the usual 75% fat, 25% protein ketogenic ratios. So, the 5-day low carb phase would look like this, on a 2000-calorie diet:

Monday and Tuesday - 2000 calories, 190g of fat, 75g of protein, trace carbs.

Wednesday - Friday - 2000 calories, 165 fat, 125 protein, less than 30g of carbs.

Divide this intake over however meals you prefer, 3-6 meals is a good guideline. I eat 5.

On the carb-load days, I recommend eating more carbs on the first day than the second day due to the simple fact that glucose uptake is higher during the first 24 hours of carb-loading. The carb load will look like this, for a 200lb guy:

Saturday - 700g of carbs (high GI liquid carbs)

Sunday - 300g of carbs (low GI solid carbs)

The reasoning for the high GI liquid carbs on the first day is to get glucose into your muscles as fast as possible, and the lower GI carbs on the second day simply keeps glucose stores full and prevents or at worst minimizes spill-over into fat stores.

During the carb load fat should be kept very low (no more than 1/2g per pound of bodyweight), and protein should be kept to no more than 1g per pound of bodyweight, this will ensure that most if not all the glucose will go into your muscles (and liver) rather than be stored as fat. To get specific, less fat on day one, and more fat on day two would be optimal. Water intake should also be higher during this period, because of glucose bringing 4g of water/gram of glucose when stored, this will serve to further saturate muscle glycogen stores as well as potentially take advantage of the anabolic effects of cellular hydration. Try to get down at least a gallon, but I'd say just drink as much as you can handle.

If you have quite a bit of fat to lose and/or need to lose it faster, a 24-hour carb-load may be ideal. If this is your case, then simply push the depletion workout back to Saturday night or Sunday morning and carb-load from there, with primarily high GI carbs at first, then go to lower GI carbs later in the day.

What about supplements?

Supplements are very important on this diet; the necessary supplements are a multivitamin/mineral supplement to counter-act any nutrient deficiencies caused by the elimination of carbs. Fiber supplementation to keep things running nicely, a calcium/magnesium supplement, and while not necessary highly recommended free-radical scavengers and antioxidants such as N-Acetyl-Cysteine (NAC), vitamin C, vitamin E, Alpha lipoic acid during the carb load (ALA), and beta carotene. I recommend ALA during the carb load because of it's quite unique ability to allow more glucose to be stored in muscle. Other supplements I recommend are creatine (load during the first carb-up, 2 days of loading will result in equal saturation as does 5 days, so the carb-up is prime time to load), this will help against the muscle "flatness" that you will likely experience during the low carb days (due to glucose depletion, of course). Supplementing with potassium (400mg/day) will also help this. Other useful supplements would be an ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine, and aspirin) because of it's fat burning, nutrient partioning (meaning more nutrients go to muscle, less to fat), stimulating, appetite suppressing, and thermogenic/metabolism boosting effects. I also drink 3 cups of green tea daily during fat loss periods for it's anti-oxidant properties and the ability of EGCG to enhance fat loss. Further, glutamine may be of use for it's growth hormone releasing effect, as well as to prevent muscle catabolism due to low levels of glutamine in the muscle cell. If you need to get some protein somewhere, a simple protein powder could also be of use, although I'd rather eat steak and ground beef :-).

Training

Training on a CKD is pretty simple, the basic idea is to train your entire body over Monday and Tuesday while you still have muscle glycogen from the carb-load to fuel your workout, and then deplete all muscle glucose on Friday prior to the carb load (the "depletion workout").

For Monday and Tuesday's workout you can split the body in two (upper/lower works nice), or as I personally prefer just train the entire body on Monday. The reason I prefer to train the entire body on Monday is primarily just to get it over with, and also to make sure I'm not sore during the depletion workout. Your training on these days should be basic, compound exercise-based, heavy weight training with the goal to keep or perhaps build strength and size. My workout looks like this (although you can change your workout as you see fit, stick to the basic principles):

Monday - Full Body

Chins: 5x6-10

Superset: DB Press: 5x6-10

Squat: 5x5

Leg ext/leg curl superset: 2x6-10

Shoulder Press: 3x6-10

Barbell Curl: 3x6-10

Skull Crusher: 3x6-10

Hanging leg raise: 2x6-10

Calf Raise-2x6-10

After this workout I'm pretty much dead, then I usually eat my first meal (I do this workout before my first meal to make sure I burn as much muscle glucose as possible) and go on to do 20 minutes or so of cardiovascular exercise.

For the depletion workout, first you have to take yourself out of ketosis by eating about 50g of carbs, specifically fruit (or pure fructose) because fructose preferentially saturates liver glycogen which is the fastest way to get out of ketosis. The reason is that when in ketosis ketones are the preferred source of fuel, so if you perform this workout while in ketosis you won't further deplete muscle glycogen rather you will just burn ketones. By taking yourself out of ketosis for this workout you will deplete intra-muscular glucose to the greatest degree possible, which in turn allows for maximal glycogen resynthesis (and local insulin sensitivity will be increased in every muscle, further increasing the effectiveness of the carb-load). The depletion workout is not meant to damage muscle fibers, just to deplete glucose, so heavy weight and training to or even near failure is not needed and is actually detrimental (you have to train again in 2 days). 15-20 (with a relatively fast, yet controlled rep cadence) reps per set are good, using your 25-30-rep maximum and obviously stopping well short of failure. Your depletion workout should cover the entire body in a circuit fashion, as shown below:

Squat: 1x15-20

Stiff Leg Deadlift: 1x15-20

Barbell Row: 1x15-20

Bench Press: 1x15-20

Pull Down: 1x15-20

Flyes: 1x15-20

Leg extension: 1x15-20

Leg Curl: 1x15-20

Tricep press: 1x15-20

Barbell Curl: 1x15-20

Calf Raise: 1x15-20

Repeat this entire circuit until your strength drops quite a bit, at this point you are glucose depleted (you'll know when you're done) and begin the carb load as explained above. Again, the specifics of this workout can be changed as you feel like, but stick to the basic principles.

Cardio

While in ketosis you will burn more fat during your cardio, but muscle loss is also a concern. I recommend you perform 20-30 minutes of moderate-high intensity cardio (stay aerobic) 2-3 days, 4 days maximum per week. Less cardio is needed during a ketogenic diet because of the fuel efficiency of ketones versus fat (9 cal vs. 7 cal); so more fat is burned in less time.

Dealing with cravings

Carb cravings are going to happen, but you can do some things to help. First, a carb-suppressant is in order. In my opinion, the supplement 5-hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP) is the best (legal) stuff on the market for this purpose. Just don't exceed 100mg daily. An ECA stack will also help a bit here, and stocking up on sugar free snacks isn't a bad idea either. Be careful of diet sodas, though, as the citric acid has been reported to kick some people out of ketosis. Personally this wasn't the case for me, and it would take quite a bit, but it's a possibility. Sugar free jello and pudding is fine, aspartame or other artificial sweeteners will not kick you out of ketosis. Just drinking a lot of water and eating a lot of filling things such as lettuce, for example, will keep your stomach full and help with appetite suppression. The high fat intake required also serves this purpose.

Summary

While I think the Cyclical Ketogenic Diet is a very effective and safe method of losing fat and retaining hard-earned muscle mass, it is not the best option for everyone, and certainly isn't necessary. As mentioned previously, if your job or other activities require a significant amount of mental acuity, since it may take up to 2 weeks for the brain to adapt to using ketones as fuel, this diet may not be a good idea. But, when it's all said and done, I think a CKD is a very good choice for going about getting rid of that fat we all hate so much. Now go lose that fat, and look out for my next article on building muscle with minimal fat gain...or don't.


Written by

Justin Frank

http://www.wannabebig.com/printarticle.php?articleid=45
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  #2   ^
Old Mon, Sep-02-02, 15:26
Trainerdan's Avatar
Trainerdan Trainerdan is offline
Posts: 2,518
 
Plan: Zone
Stats: 255/242/230 Male 75 inches (6'3")
BF:21%/15%/8%
Progress: 52%
Location: Philly
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good post Chevi.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Sep-03-02, 14:04
Luxsit's Avatar
Luxsit Luxsit is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 356
 
Plan: MyLCWOL
Stats: 485/366/210 Male 72 inches
BF:
Progress: 43%
Location: Colorado
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Hi,
I appreciate the application post but I need some help to convert it over to my situation. Since I am around 450lbs. some of the exercises you and Trainerdan recommend are just not possible for me to do. Example, dips, hanging anything etc.

1) Exercise - First, since I have certain limitation due to current weight, what would I substitute in place of the one's I can't do? What changes would you make for someone just starting resistance training? Dan, suggested using Maximum Recovery Workout plan, but it also contained exercises I can't do right now? Would you recommend I get a personal trainer to help demonstrate proper technique and to adapt to my needs?

2) Food
Since I have a lot of weight to lose, is a 1 1/4 day carb load ok(Friday Night-Saturday)? I also don't have access to gym on the weekend so I need to do weights Monday-Friday. Does fruit juice count as a high GI liquid? About food before after workouts, do you recommend a protein drink before or after? I've been drinking some Propel Energy drink after cardio workouts.

3) Supplements
You mentioned a number of supplements but not when to take, how much to take, how to mix, i.e., water, etc. Right now I am taking Dieters Multi, EAS Structured EFA, and an ECA stack. According to the contents of the Dieters Multi, it looks like I am about 300mg short of Potassium, and need to add ALA. How much ALA, when? Creatine, how much, when, how to take? Glutamine same questions? Green tea - what kind Chinese, Japanese, does brand matter? I've also noticed a little bit of cramping after cardio, would more potassium help?

Regards,
Lux
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Sep-03-02, 14:28
Big Dog Big Dog is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 247
 
Plan: CKD Sept '02
Stats: 280/240/200
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Pennsylvania
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i will offer a few opinions.

1. I think a personal trainer would definately be a big help to you. Make a list of exercises that you want to do on the CKD plan. Then if you currently cant do them ask the trainer to help you find and alternate exercise that would work the same muscle group. I suppose you could do this by posting messages here but a trainer will be able to help you much more, especially if you are a novice lifter.

2. Fruit juice usually contains fructose and fron everything i hae read fructose should be avoided. I spent about 15 minutes going through the cooler at my gym until i found a suitable post-workout carb load beverage. I do all my workouts on an empty stomach.

3. I cant be much help on the supplements except that Glutamine is recommended pre and post workout

good luck
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Sep-03-02, 15:39
Big Dog Big Dog is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 247
 
Plan: CKD Sept '02
Stats: 280/240/200
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Pennsylvania
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Another good article I found at

http://www.hardbodiessupplements.co...enicdieting.htm



Ketogenic Dieting For Beginners

by Ed Sturm

This article is being written for those who are either only remotely familiar and totally unfamiliar with ketogenic dieting. The information provided here is based solely upon my own personal experiences as well as those of my wife. There are no references from medical journals or mentions of specific case studies. This is simply a real life testimony of what my wife and I have experienced with regards to ketogenic dieting.


What is a Ketogenic Diet?

For starters, ketotenic dieting is based upon the removal of nearly all carbohydrates from one's diet for a certain period of time. In the absence of carbohydrates, the body will resort to stored fat as it's primary fuel source. Stored fat is broken down into ketones which the body then uses for energy. In order to enter this state of ketosis, one's liver glycogen must be emptied. Ingested carbohydrates are stored in the liver as glycogen, as well as in the muscles. When the liver is depleted of glycogen, a state of ketosis is achieved. Ketones are a by-product of fat burning, therefore while in a state of ketosis, the body is burning stored fat as it's main source of fuel. I'll bypass the explanation as to why this is such a positive occurrence.

The object of a ketogenic diet is to deplete the liver of it's glycogen stores as quickly as possible so that fat burning occurs. This is done by severely restricting carbohydrates and eating only sources of proteins and fats. On a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet (CKD) carbohydrate restriction lasts for a total of 5-6 days at which time a 1-2 day carbohydrate loading phase begins. The CKD is essentially the Ketogenic Diet for weightlifters, with the carbohydrate loading phase designed to replenish Muscle Glycogen stores so that adequate weight training may occur during the following week.

Many people have brought up the issue that a low carbohydrate diet will cause lethargy and weakness. These people were not mentally strong enough to make it through the first few days until they reached a state of ketosis so they experienced the basic lethargy typically associated with low carb diets. They also did not replace any of the missing calories with fat which caused them to feel miserable due to a lack of adequate calories. They didn't give themselves or the diet a chance to adapt. Just like with anything else, there is a period of adaptation.

This is not a low carbohydrate diet. It is essentially a NO Carbohydrate diet. While on a LOW carbohydrate diet, enough carbs are always eaten to avoid entering into a state of ketosis but not enough carbs or total calories to maintain adequate energy levels. Dropping the carbohydrate count further and raising the fat calories will allow the body to enter ketosis and use ketones, or stored fat as fuel. While in a state of ketosis, one feels energetic and does not experience the general lethargy found with basic LOW carbohydrate diets. Ketones also enable one to maintain regulated insulin levels throughout the day which again will cause one to feel energetic. Below we can see the difference between a basic low carb diet and the Ketogeinc Diet.


Basic LOW Carb Diet:

* weakness

* lethargy

* low insulin levels

* constant hunger

* moderate fat burning

* muscle loss

* low fat intake

* excessively low total calories


Ketogenic Diet:

* energy

* workout intensity

* feelings of well-being

* full and satisfied

* high fat intake

* high level of fat burning

* minimal muscle loss

* total calories no more than 500 below maintenance

Clearly it is obvious which diet is more beneficial as far as fat burning, retaining muscle and general feelings of well being. Plus, with the ketogenic diet, you actually get to eat more food.


How it Works

Now don't get me wrong here. I am not trying to "sell" anyone on a ketogenic diet and there is no product we are pushing here. This article is simply to give people another option; one that my wife and I have had a tremendous amount of success with. Ketogenic dieting is not easy as eliminating carbohydrates from one's daily eating habits is quite difficult. It requires structure, planning and dedication. Many foods are carbohydrate laden that the average person is not even aware of such as fruits and condiments. Basically, on a ketogenic diet one eats meat and fish all day long. It does have it's advantages though as normally restricted foods such as steak, whole eggs, pork chops, pork skins, sausages, meatloaf, burgers (without the bun of course) and salmon are not only permitted, but they are encouraged.

It is quite simple to slip up without even knowing it on this diet. First, understand that even a minimal amount of carbohydrates will shift your body right out of the ketosis/fat burning mode. This is a diet that requires strict attention to detail and absolutely NO cheating during the week. The cheating will come soon enough and plenty enough on the weekends. There is no such thing as just a little bite of that bagel of just one cookie. This diet works absolute wonders as far as fat burning goes but it must be done properly or results will be minimal at best.


Carb Depletion

During the carbohydrate depletion phase (during the week) carbohydrate foods such as fruit, breads, grains, candies, cookies, deserts, catsup, dressings, cereals, etc., etc. are not permitted at all. One must check the label of everything to ensure that there are no carbs. The key is to keep the daily carb count of 20-40 per day. Some people even require less than 20 to achieve ketosis. This basically allows you a total of roughly 4-8 grams of carbohydrates per meal which would preferably come in the form of green vegetables. Watch the dressings as they all have carbohydrates with the exception of vinegar. The only condiments that you can be safe with are mustard and regular, whole mayonnaise. (not low fat or light)

Workouts

While on a CKD, one must tailor their workouts to center around the diet. The carb depletion would begin on Monday and between Monday-Wednesday, the entire body would be trained with weights. In other words, condense the workouts so that they are completed by Wednesday. This will exhaust both your liver glycogen as well as your muscle glycogen. Cardio may continue to be done all week. At the end of the week, one would perform a grueling full body weight training session after which time the carb loading would begin.


Carb Loading

The carbohydrate loading may last anywhere between 12-36 hours although I feel it is best to minimize it to 12-18 hours. It consists of basically a full day of cheating (but there are rules). You need to consume carbohydrates in each meal ranging from 40-120, depending upon the person. The protein stays high but fats must be limited or the total calories will be too high and new fat will be stored. The idea is refill muscle glycogen so that workouts may be performed with some amount of intensity the following week. Fruits are to be avoided as fructose will only refill liver glycogen which will prevent ketosis from being reestablished until later in the week. After the carb load is complete, the depletion phase begins again until the next weekend. During the carb load period, any carbs may be eaten so long as the fat is kept moderately low and there is no fructose (fruit sugar) consumed.


Results

While on a CKD, it is quite common for users to experience total fat loss of up to 2-3 pounds per week. Due to the carbohydrate cycling and manipulation, one will experience weight fluctuations ranging from 2-10 pounds during the carb loading phase. Personally, I went from 10% body fat to 5% in 8 weeks with minimal muscle loss while my wife went from 20% to 15% in an astonishing five weeks. The keys are not cheating at all during the week, knowing the nutritional content of the foods you eat, maintaining structure and not overdoing it on the weekends.


This article is intended to supply the reader with a basic introduction to the principles of ketogenic dieting. There is much more information available and I strongly suggest that prior to starting a diet of this sort, the reader purchase one of the following books listed below which will shed more light upon the subject. There are additional variables such as vitamin and supplement information, fiber consumption, additional ketogenic aids and potential dangers which need to be addressed prior to beginning a ketogenic diet.


For a sample of a typical low carb day on a CKD, click on the link below:

CKD


For more reading material, see one of the books listed below:

1) The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald

2) Body Opus by Dan Duchaine

3) New Diet Revolution by Dr. Atkins


This article is not meant to act as or replace the advice of a medical professional. Many medical professionals do not share the belief that ketogenic diets are safe and effective. Please visit with your Doctor prior to beginning any diet program.
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  #6   ^
Old Thu, Sep-05-02, 14:19
nawchem's Avatar
nawchem nawchem is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 8,701
 
Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
BF:36/29.0/27.3
Progress: 80%
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thanks for the article big dog, I'm thinking of starting CKD since i started doing more intense workout I have been eating way more and doubled my carbs to about 40 a day from 20 or so....

I'm eating about 1800 cal per day right now. I have some nutrition drinks from my doctor that are intended for liquid dieting I was thinking of using these for the carb up. They have almost no fat, their 20carbs and 150 cal each and loaded with vitamins and minerals. If I did use those it would keep my cals fairly low. 5 shakes are supposed to meet all your daily requirements, which is 800 calories.

Do you you think that would work? I'm interested in toning up and losing fat.

thanks Nancy
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Oct-29-02, 22:09
deze's Avatar
deze deze is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 3,282
 
Plan: 40/35/25
Stats: 160/160/155 Female 5'10
BF:25/23/18
Progress: 0%
Location: Victoria
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NawChem,
I am similar to you, wondering about the CKD. I have been at a stall for quite a while now, I know I dont have alot more weight to lose, but I would like to become more physically efficient for running and other sports and would like to generally be really toned.

Have you tried the CKD yet? I have been on Atkins for 4 months now and have lost 10 pounds and have kept it off, I feel like I need something else to help with this stall, and to keep me focused.

any feedback, what is your experience?
d
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  #8   ^
Old Wed, Oct-30-02, 12:49
nawchem's Avatar
nawchem nawchem is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 8,701
 
Plan: No gluten, CAD
Stats: 196.0/158.5/149.0 Female 62
BF:36/29.0/27.3
Progress: 80%
Default

Hi Deze,
Right after I posted I started feeling really bad. I've had all kinds of tests, after all this time they think I'm getting low blood sugar from the increased exercise. I've temporarily started the zone. I'm really shocked, now I'm eating 100 carbs a day, no weight gain. I eat 10 servings of fruit and veges spread over 3 meals and 2 snacks. I feel a lot better but it may just be that I have a weird body. I felt quite a bit more energetic increasing the carbs and I think the CKD probably isn't the right thing for me right now. My goal right now is to just not feel like I'm going to pass out.

I'm interested to find out what you decide to do. Don't be afraid to increase your carbs even if its just 5 a week, you'll probably reach a point where you can still lose- slowly, have good workouts, and feel your best.

Nancy
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  #9   ^
Old Wed, Oct-30-02, 13:41
Fietser's Avatar
Fietser Fietser is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 254
 
Plan: carb/calorie cycling
Stats: 187/134/128 Female 1,59m
BF:36%/25%/21%
Progress: 90%
Location: Netherlands
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This week I changed from CKD to TKD as the cardio I was doing was simply too intense for not eating any carbs.
I was as Jalilah put it so eloquently like death warmed over during a spnning session (wed right after weight training and sat on its' own) while today after adding 40 gram of carbs (maltodextrin and a fruit syrup w/o extra sugar) I felt on top of the world..
Most of the carbs were depleted by the long slow bike ride back home (60 mins, normally 45 but the combo of cardio and weight training is a bit hard)

Because I still want to raise leptin levels I will have one or 2 carb meals and not raise my caloric intake (on a typical carboloading it should be 3000 kcal vs 1900 kcal in week day) on Saturday rather than eating carbs all day long.. When I carboloaded, I gained 2 kg and only was back to the old weight on Friday prior to the next carboload..

BTW, in the excellent page on refeeding http://www.theministryoffitness.com...s/article18.htm it was mentioned that people with a body fat above 20% should only refeed/carbo load every 10-14 days..
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