Okay. I buy FULL FAT goatmilk and I heat it to 180 degrees, let it cool to 115 degrees and add my yogurt culture - keep it covered in 115 degrees for 26 hours - it's VERY VERY SOUR just like KEFIR - ....so If I leave it THAT long...and ALL the lactose is gone from it, or most of it - how many carbs are left?

I know commercial yogurts have about 4 countable carbs per cup (minus 8 carbs approx for the lactose eaten up), but I make my OWN and it's so sour - I don't think anyone in their right mind/accept me - would enjoy it.

...Also, if I take a plain, full fat container of yogurt, you know, stonefields - sometimes I make a "cheese" or "sourcream" thingy out of it by turning it over coffee filters and letting it just drain over a bowl for about 12 hours. Instant home made/cheese/sourcream - now many people say that all the lactose and sugars will drip right out - and I believe that - it does NOT taste sweet at all/not sour, but just bland...and the liquid that comes off is syrupy and an eggwhite consistency...

...anyone know if I'm making extremely low carb "cheese/sourcream" in my own way with this yogurt technique? How many carbs would be in it? A quart of yogurt condenses into about 1/2 that amount of "cheese", so are there almost no carbs due to the dripping down of lactose in it or because it is now concentrated, are the carbs the same or HUH?

Thanks. I hope someone knows.

Oh, also, if I take NONfat yogurt and make my "cheese" out of it, did all the lactose (sugar + carbs) drip out - making a non-fat - carbfree substance or ?

One more thing - if I take NONfat milk, and I make my 26 hour yogurt out of it is all the lactose gone/or most of it if it is REALLY sour -- ???

Just wondering.

Ok, whether it's made into yogurt or made into 'cheese', it starts with a certain amount of carbs, which is all lactose (milk sugar). If the lactose is 98% gone, then you have 2% of the original carbs left.

You do the math. The laws of physics apply. Nothing really disappears, it only can be reconstructed into something else. If the lactose is gone, the carbs are gone. 1g lactose = 1g carb. Concentrated 1g carb is still 1g carb, it's just in a smaller space.

If you take 1 teaspoon of sugar and stir it into 1 Cup of water or 1/2 Cup of water, it's no different amount of carbs, just a different amount or volume of water.

K?

No, not K.

You say if the lactose is gone then the carbs are gone.
So are there carbs in yogurt that has NO lactose - or not?

Are there carbs in Kefir? I think that is what I am making...my homemade yogurt is SO sour, other people actually pucker and wince when trying it. I love it by the way.

--- don't give up on me, I am educable, but still this isn't clear to me.

Kefir is kefir and yogurt is yogurt. They are two different things.

I look at it this way: Water is being drained from the yogurt but the milk solids are left behind. It's somewhat like making cheese where the milk is curded and removed from the water.

I doubt that the milk sugars are draining off as they're an integral part of the milk.

If that is true, there would be more carbs in the same amount of yogurt cheese - more everything actually - because the water has drained out and the product has become more compact.

Karen

----what I pour from my drained "cheese" is the whey, not just water and it's very thick (eggwhite consistency) and seems syrupy to me.

Still from what I've read, unless you actually heat and incubate the milk product before you drain it - the carbs are not decreased in cheese or in any product that is no fermented...it's just that 1oz cheese has 1 carb and 1 cup (uncondensed in the cheese condition has 4)...I get that NOW. So even if I make cheese (and I should because it's GOOD), I still count 1 carb per 1 oz because no lactose has been removed.

Huh, here's the link that says differently:

http://www.triadpublishing.com/funnel.htm

I bring questions/so it's only fair I also bring answers to many other yogurt making questions- a great site:
http://www.scdiet.org/7archives/scd008.html

on lactose for those who have the time and interest:
http://www.funhouse.com/babs/lactose.html

SO - back to one question not answered...
actually a few-

A. One more thing - if I take either fullfat or nonfat milk, and I make my 26 hour yogurt out of it - (all lactose gone) can I assume it's carbfree?

B. And I best you can't make yogurt out of Lactaid milk because it has no lactose in it right? Or does it have lactose but just contains an enzyme to digest the lactose once in your system?
The containers says carbs.

C. Also what is the difference between Kefir and Yogurt? I thought if I make my yogurt runny and REAL sour - that was Kefir. Huh.

D. I assume if you boil or heat regular yogurt, all you are doing is killing off the good bacteria? Or can you use regular yogurt somehow to make a carbfree cheese if you boil it (just like milk) and then add culture again and incubate it for 26 hours and then drain it? Is it carb free then?

Still listening and learning.




__________________
If you have to count

Generally speaking, most of the carbs/lactose in a milk product, whatever its fat content, is contained in the watery part (whey) and not bound to the fat or milk proteins. Whey DOES contain proteins, though, make no mistake. Draining the whey from curded (curdled) milk products removes much of the lactose and quite a bit of protein (hence whey protein isolate, which is very much more processed and separated whey, and cheese which is the very much lower carb curdled fat/protein). The proteins and not the lactose in the whey you've drained from your various experiments is what gives the whey its eggwhite consistency.

Yogurt still has lots of the whey/water component, Cheese does not. Yogurt gets the bacteria munching up much of the lactose, hence lower carbs. Yogurt made INTO yogurt cheese, if it's actually curdled, will lose much of the remaining carbs. Yogurt made into the drained variety of "yogurt cheese" will lose almost as many of the remaining carbs. The softer the cheese, the higher the whey component and generally the higher the REMAINING carb count. There is a big difference between making true cheese (curdling and aging/fermenting) and the sour cream cheese you get with draining yogurt (fermenting and draining).



The fat ain't got nuthin' to do with it; all the carbs in any unmodified milk product is the lactose (milk sugar). If all the lactose is gone, all the carbs are gone. The trick is finding out if all the lactose is gone (and as far as I know only a lab test will prove that one).



I got some info out of one of the companies (Natrel, I think) about these 'lactose-free' milks... and they don't filter out the lactose, they add some (trademarked secret enzyme process) particular enzyme combo that essentially breaks down the lactose into its component sugars ... lactose is a disaccharide of some kind, probably explained on that webpage you were reading. So the carbs are still there. Great for the LACTOSE-intolerant but not for the SUGARS-intolerant.



Kefir is made from a different and very specific friendly microbe than the lactobacillus type used (mostly) for yogurts. Different flavour, too, if you go out and get some 'starter' Kefir you will taste the difference.



Heating to 160F or boiling (ick!) yogurt kills off ALL competing bacteria, then you get to add in the friendly ones and they have a "clear playing field". You get to be Louis Pasteur for a little while. An addition of an acid usually speeds up the curding process, which is basically denaturing or cooking the protein to get them to clump together and 'solidify' (voila, cheese).

In any yogurt or cheese, SOME variety (or many) of friendly bacteria or culture is fermenting the product, in the process of which the lactose gets eaten and thereby turned into lactic acid among other things. ONLY if the carbs/lactose get eaten/fermented (not boiled), does one get fewer carbs.

Seems to me you've got it all nailed, except for mixing up the heating and the fermenting, and their purposes.

Hope that helps.

WOW THANKS - I'm going to STUDY your answer, as I know many others will too!!!! THANKS!!!!

Just a late addendum, in case anyone wants to know another facet of the carbs-in-yogurt thing ...

Go to www.go-diet.com to see the information there about yogurt-making, it's utility in ANY 'diet', and the results of the only known lab-testing of natural yogurt to determine the answer to the perennial question: how many carbs are REALLY left in natural yogurt?!?

I am trying to find an accurate measure for determining the carbohydrates in skim milk yogurt, drained of whey. I suspect there is an accurate and easily applied formula based on the ratio of residual to original volume of yogurt after draining. I suspect, also, that there is an easy and accurate means of estimating the carbs removed from the original by measure of the whey drained off the yogurt.

Should anyone out there have an answer that fits my request, please either post it or email me. I have an encyclopedia of heresay and opinion, as does anyone surfing diet sites, but I'm looking for something more than well meaning or even well informed chat about the matter.

Thanks.

bois d'arc

Another thing to consider is that when you drain off the whey, you drain off most of the calcium, too.