The idea that fat people have sometimes a distorted vision of reality and can´t stop eating the wrong things, eat for emotional relief etc. etc. fuel the idea that it is an addiction like any other.

So are/were we fat people really junkies?

Some are, some aren't.

The addiction connection hasn't really been proved, as far as I nnow, with food. While there is an insulin response, I think the body can be "retrained" to respond normally to foods that once made us go nuts. This isn't something that can be done with other addictions. Just ask a recovering alcoholic.

Many of us got fat in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons: eating high carb (pyramid) because that's what we thought were were supposed to do; bad habit; emotional eating; medical conditions.

It's not a one-size-fits all situation. Food is a complex issue because it's something we HAVE to do to survive. It's not like we can just abstain as one can from tobacco or alcohol.

i was definitely a junky when i was fat. I had the absolute worst eating habits ever.

I reckon lots of folk will disagree with me, but I think the word "addiction" has suffered from overuse during our generation. What about a plain-old bad habit that's hard to break (aren't all bad habits?!) and easier to keep going back to over and over?

Some may be, I don't think I am.

I wasn't fat as a kid or even an adult. I got bigger and bigger as I aged and my metabolism slowed down, plus I had back surgery and then fell and broke my shoulder. So, I'm not saying I wouldn't be overweight if those two things hadn't happned, but I wouldn't be this overweight (I don't think).

I think for me, the best thing someone (I don't know who) could have done was pound it into my head that you have got to decrease your eating as you get older. I've known women who did amateur athletic competitions and trained consistently but still put on weight as they got older.

You also have to understand the processed carb problem and the overweight issues. Once overweight, leptin does not do what it is supposed to do. I guess when you think on it, it starts from the time we are babies and given that cereal stuff out of a box. And for some, that starts the ball rolling and for them, I don't think it is a psychological addiction.

I think "addiction" is overused as well. It seems to be used to cover those bad habits, like mammac-5 said, while I believe a TRUE addiction falls WAY on the more severe end of the spectrum.

I look at it like the difference between being a heavy drinker and a true alcoholic. I know MANY people who used to have a real problem drinking (myself included) who have been able to moderate their drinking and change their perspective. I used to drink to get DRUNK. Now, I have an occasional drink because I like the taste, and can LEAVE it at ONE drink.

IMO, a true alcoholic is someone who just can never do that.

I'm not saying there aren't real food addicts out there, I just feel most of us fall more in the "heavy eater" category, no pun intended. Either eating the wrong foods for our bodies, or just too darn much out of habit or emotion... but it would be a rare person, again, IMO, who can't learn to moderate their eating and regain health. When I think of "food addict", I think of the people who eat to the point of becoming housebound, drowning in their own bulk when ALL reason is gone. Literally eating themselves to death. Now to be driven to eat when you can no longer get out of bed....to me, THAT is a true addiction.

Just my 2 cents.

Not to mention the fact, that the "bad" food just taste darn good!!! I like it!!!

In order to answer that it might be a good idea to first take a look at what defines an 'addiction': http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpage/dsm.html




What you are referring to, Watcher, is not a true 'addiction', but more of a disordered relationship with food (eating for comfort, entertainment, to relieve stress, boredom, etc...).
Some people do use food to soothe emotions or avoid dealing with them head-on, but this does not an addiction make nor does it apply to all overweight individuals.

Having said that, sugar does fit many of the criteria for an addictive substance: alteration of neurochemical production in the brain, Increased tolerance; the need for more and more to achieve the same effect that less once did, loss of control and withdrawal symptoms when the user ceases using the substance.
Even if the idea that many are addicted to sugar was accepted (and it isn't), it doesn't prove that all overweight individuals are sugar junkies (just as not everyone who socially drinks alcohol is an alcoholic) or relieve the responsibility of the addict to do something about it once they are aware of the problem. As my DH who works in addiction recovery is known to say, "An addict may not be responsible for having become addicted. They are however responsible for their behavior and their recovery."




I agree, mammac-5. But rather than overuse, I think the term has been abused as means to avoid accepting responsibility for behavior (as in "I can't help it...I'm addicted").

it is a real and concrete fact that as you put on weight, leptin production decreases. So it is really adding those first few extra pounds of fat that create the problem. And in the case of some person's that was done before they ever had responsibility for their own weight. For anyone, no matter when the weight increased, that is over 10 pounds overweight, it is a true battle.

I do not believe it is an addiction, but a chemical imbalance. And I whole- heartedly disagree with anyone who makes it sound so easy as to just be responsible. I find it very hard-hearted and old school. It reminds me of ex-smokers who suddenly are very intolerant of other smokers and make the most noise about smoking.

It's interesting, because I've never heard an alcoholic do that. I never heard one be incredibly mean spirited towards another person having the same problem.

A lot of women are never taught to care for themselves. They are taught it is selfish. So it is hard for them to actually take the time and effort for themselves without feeling guilty.

Being overweight is a whole lot of combined issues. For someone to trivialize it as a lack of responsibility for one's own behavior's is something from out of the old school.

If ATkins and other low carbers have made anything clear to everyone, it is that that just isn't always the case...it especially isn't always the only thing going on.

quietone, I don't think that anyone here is saying that "it's just that easy".
But if accepting responsibility for your behavior and your actions is 'old school', then I guess that makes me old school. Once I got to adulthood (and well before that, for that matter), I was the one putting junk in my mouth, nobody else. Whether you want to claim 'leptin', 'addiction' or 'chemical imbalance' that still does not relieve me of the responsibility to do something about it once I recognize that there's a problem and my choice of what to eat was mine alone.
Does that mean it's easy to change? Heck no! But...as they say in Japan, "Fix the problem, not the blame." Too many people spend so much time fixing the blame that the problem never gets addressed or they feel justified in not addressing it because "it's not my fault", meaning that they have come to believe that there is nothing in their power that can be done about it.

As for your experiences with never having heard an alcoholic be mean spirited to another alcoholic, I read that part to my DH and his response was, "They've obviously never sat in on one of my house meetings when one of the addicts is making excuses for continuing their addiction. Those guys can be brutal!" (remember, we're talking about hard core substance abusers here, not just someone who's overweight).

You've never worked in a bar! It's all too common for a recovering alcoholic to come in and try to "prove" how they can tolerate the atmosphere. The ones I witnessed would sit and table preach to anyone within earshot how they're all killing themselves with booze, trying to convert the masses.... often with some pretty mean comments. I actually had to kick one out of the bar for it. Then there's the off-the-wagon one who used to buy shots and put them in front of the guy still on the wagon, trying to get HIM to fail too.

If three of these is enought to have an addiction, a lot of people are addicted to being fat. I would like to make a difference between food and fat here.

(3) The substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended (loss of control).
-- Per definition the problem of people on a diet


(4) There is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use (loss of control).
-- The jojo diet culture

(5) A great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance, use the substance, or recover from its effects (preoccupation).
-- The obsession with either eating or dieting and exercise.

(6) Important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use (continuation despite adverse consequences).
-- Read the stories of fat people, shame, not sporting, no bathing suit etc. because of being to fat.

(7) The substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance. (adverse consequences).
-- The eating of bad food by fat people...

Watcher, I think what you're missing here with food is the chief question when considering addiction: Does cessation of use result in physical withdrawal symptoms (headache, nausea/vomiting, tremors, seizures, hallucinations, etc..)?
There is also the 'intoxication' aspect of addiction as well. Most foods don't produce those changes and are not consumed to achieve an intoxication (high)feeling as most people define it.
The symptoms you list are secondary to the first 2 (which must be met for physical addiction to be present).
Another aspect of addiction that I think you may not be considering is that in all cases, the substance being abused is not something that your body needs to survive (water and food, for example).

After reading Lisa N's responses, I'd have to say that being overweight doesn't indicate some sort of "addiction" to food.

I will say though, that I have noticed I'm much more inclined to overeat sugary things, whereas, with a low carb eating plan, I just don't eat as much.

I've eaten whole bags of cookies at times, but I've never eaten a whole bag of cooked chicken breast cubes or a bunch of cheese slices.

Oddly, I tried sugar free jello with a wee bit of cream on top, and I still didn't feel the need to eat more than the single serving pastic cup of the stuff I bought.

I'm thinking there's a connection here, in that it isn't the sugar itself, but rather, sugar in combination with grains and fats that's been my downfall in the past - ie. cookies, cakes, donuts and the like.

I don't necessarily think it's a true "addiction" per se, but I do think high carb foods can be numbing and/or calming if eaten in large quantities. Maybe this phenomenon is more like a distraction, rather than a real addiction. A means of distracting ourselves from whatever's going on in our lives. Yet, I don't think this is the case with everyone...(the distraction idea).

So...in this respect, things like shopping too much, overeating, gambling, even overexercising are perhaps more like compulsions rather than true addictions. And perhaps the so-called "compulsion" is a way to avoid, a way to distract or dissociate from what's really going on. I think maybe those who are addicted to drugs or alchohol perhaps start out this way, and then..because of the substance they're dealing with, it progresses into a true addiction - where you see the need to increase consumption, you see the physical withdrawal symptoms and so on.

This is an interesting thread, and I've learned something here I think. And that is, perhaps we really do overuse the word "addiction", and furthermore, I'd have to say that I agree with the idea that using the word "addiction" might be a means of absolving oneself of some personal responsibility. Like it's some kind of medical problem (which is a very real facet of true addiction) rather than a compulsion/habit or what have you.

Getting back to this "personal responsibility" idea...it's not that we should take offense to this concept, but rather, maybe we need to think about the possibility that we could be using the term "addiction" to further avoid the problem. So maybe when we think of the overeating situation, perhaps we could look at it as tool or mechanism that we're utilizing in order to avoid something else. Futhermore - referring to the overeating as some sort of "addiction" is perhaps another layer of avoidance.

When I'd overeat high carb/high sugar/high fat items, there was only so much I could eat. Sure..I could eat a whole bag of cookies, but then...I wasn't fixating on when I'd eat the next one or anything like that. I've never heard of anyone who overate needing to check into a medically supervised detox center, nor have I heard of severe physical withdrawals when a person decides to get serious about curbing the "avoidance" problem.

And the funny thing is...overeating in order to avoid things, leads to a whole new problem - the problem of being fat. Perhaps the pain of being fat is a replacement for the *real* problem (whatever it may be). Maybe we've exchanged our real emotional pain for the pain of being fat. Perhaps being fat is easier than dealing with whatever's really going on. Perhaps we can tell ourselves that the thing that's bothering is the fact that we're overweight, because then we've got this idea that it can be fixed, whereas not all of our real feelings can be so easily "fixed".

Maybe I overate in order to avoid feeling something. Then...as I got fatter and fatter, I had a whole new problem to focus on - the problem of being overweight. Perhaps thinking about being fat is a heck of a lot easier and simpler to focus on than the realization that my relationship was going down the tubes or that I hated my job. Instead, I could focus on how bad it felt to be fat. Voila - another way of avoiding me, my life and my experience.

For myself, it may have been fear of change - because if my relationship wasn't working and my job was awful, and I acknowledged those things to myself - then I'd have to do something about those things wouldn't I? And these parts of my life were (at least in my mind at the time) my whole identity. Making huge changes to those facets of my life was a rather scary prospect.

Everyone wants to "belong" somewhere, whether it's a job or a relationship or what have you. Make a change, or take those things away (even if it's for the better in the long term), creates a gap ...a temporary phase in which we don't "belong" anywhere. Take away "A" and get on the bridge to "B" or "C" or "Z". Except, when we leave "A", we don't exactly know where we'll end up. We might have an idea of where we'd like to go, but in making a big change, we've taken away the structure around our lives, and sometimes we believe the structure is our identity, rather than our spirit. This makes acknowledging our real feelings to ourselves (hence leading to a need to take some kind of action on our own behalf), a very scary prospect.

Maybe I'll just eat and eat and eat instead. Then...I'll be fat, and I'll think that's my real problem in place of what's really going on. It'll help me stay where I am, so that I don't have to leave the structure, or make a change and get on a path to ...who knows where. Yikes...break out the Oreos and bring on the ice cream

Not sure if I'm making any sense here, kinda thinking outloud.

Interesting discussion though

I agree that the word addiction has been overused, however, I feel that when we reduce our carbs, we experience withdrawal. So how can you experience withdrawal without being addicted? Hmmm, such ponderings.