Perhaps I am having one of those days of doubt.
Perhaps reading too much stuff.
Perhaps wondering about the science of Low Carb and not the results.
Perhaps Because my weight loss has slowed to a crawl.
Perhaps worried about my brother who is going in for colon surgery today and the "unbalanced" nature of my new diet. Perhaps I am not convinced by the supplement arguments and am looking for more natural nutrients. (You cannot get phytochemicals in a pill). I was amazed at the supplements thread.
Perhaps wondering why, after 30 years since Atkins first published, that their are not millions of success stories that could dispell the doubts and would demonstrate that this really is a sustaining way of life.

There are many successes on this site but most other diets have their successes too.

So is it true that ALL ingested foods will stimulate insulin and that carbohydrate may not be the big bogey man in the equation?

Can we escape from the reality that fat will only be stored if too much food (from any source) is eaten? ( e.g. too much protein will make you fat as well).

Is it true that the body actually burns some calories in order to turn carbohydrate into fat?

Is it true that extra fat calories on the other hand can be immediately turned into fat?

Is Low carb just low calorie dressed up a bit?

Weight, obesity, fatness, is such a complex issue.
It is calories for sure but it is also genetics, social issues, peer group pressure, medical, metabolism, and pyschological issues.

The many posts on this site show that the women seeking support do show their emotions in their writings and journals. The men, like me, are more factual, matter of fact and are happier with data, evidence etc. I am not into journal writing and I do not think that I neccessarily need a mentor.

The support I think I need, (you can maybe tell I am having a little motivation crisis) is not of the sort of. ....Wow you have done so well...Don't give up now..etc. It is not stroking or Mr. Motivator sort of stuff. It needs to be at the intelectual level, the evidential level, the cast iron certainty level.

Having reviewed what I have written above I am not even sure I will push the "post" button. I am almost answering my own questions. It is not as if low carb is a religion and is a matter of belief. The WOL thing does seem to overplay the bodily function of eating. It perhaps does not matter if the Science is a load of whoey and someone will say April fool.

The reality is:
Do I feel better than three months ago...yes. Have I lost weight and inches...definitely. Has my BP come down....undoubtedly. Do I exercise more?.... I certainly do.

Is it true that I will continue with low carb?........I will keep you posted.

And of course there are the exceptions to these rules - the women who just want the facts and the science behind the workings of LC.

A few points:

Yes, too much protein can make you fat when eaten with carbs. The amount you would have to eat in the absence of carbs would make your head spin. Excess protein is converted into glucose by your body - but it is released so slowly that it does not produce a rise in insulin.

Not all foods stimulate the release of insulin. Fat is metabolically neutral. I causes no change in insulin or in glucagon . In the absence of insulin fat cannot be stored. Period. In the presence of insulin fat cannot be burned either.

I hope your brother is OK.

Nat

I'm not going to try to think I have any answers but what I can say is people are different. Everyone has a different make up. What works for one person may not necessarily work for another. There is no "real" way or "right" way, it's whatever works for you. I think too much of anything is no good. In this diet-crazed society we live in we all want to find the magic diet that let's us eat as much as we want and still drop pounds too. I think a lot of us have to realize that it just ain't gonna happen. If lowcarbing properly is helping you feel better about yourself and helping you to lose weight, then it's something you should continue. But I wouldn't lowcarb just because I think I can eat 5 pounds of beef at one sitting just as long as I don't have the bread. That's just plain gluttony.

I think we here in the Western world want to have everything on a grand scale including our meals. We want bigger houses, more clothes, big cars, fast cars, vacations every winter and summer. When we discuss eating out with friends what is usually a comment made about a restaurant - the size of the portions. If they're big, we make a point of stressing that the most rather than the quality of the food.

Maybe the old mantra "everything in moderation" is right way but I don't think the masses are disciplined enough to do it - myself included.

You're thinking so loud, I can hear you from Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada!!!!!

First, Doreen is not a man!

Unfortunately, I'm not a biochemist. I think biochemists are the most equipped professionals to settle these matters. So, as a layperson, I listen to both sides, and make my judgement from what I consider credible research, and from my own physiological reactions.

My own research showed me that the power behind low-fat, high-carb propaganda is a huge processed food industry and powerful lobbies, that have grown stronger from the 70's under the claim of making us healthy. Now we have children with diabetese in an alarming rate and are in worst shape than when they started.

The science against low-carb is exclusively in regards to animal fat in combination with high-carbohydrates. Not enough to convince any open minded reader.

Like you, I am healthier while low-carbing.

Putting these together convinced me to keep on doing what is working for me. If a new revelation comes in with credible studies showing low-carbing is dangerous, then I shall stop.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I thought I had something to add, but it seems like I just repeated what you said.

Wa'il

I think that by low carbing, I am eliminating my ADDICTION!!! In many, many a post, Karen has addressed the issue of emotional eating and our addiction to food. I think that carbs and SUGAR are the #1 addictive ingredient. Part of this whole journey for me is breaking the cycle.
I found this article to be very informative...


After Eating, Blood Flow to Brain Is Different for Obese and Lean Women

Obese women and lean women have different brain responses after eating a meal, say researchers from the National Institutes of Health.

In a study published in a recent issue of Obesity Research, scientists reported that obese women had greater blood flow to certain areas of the brain after ingesting a meal. Ten lean women and 12 obese women fasted for 36 hours and then consumed a liquid meal. Using magnetic resonance imaging and other imaging tests, the blood flow to various regions of the women’s brains was measured.

Once they were satisfied after eating the liquid meal, both lean and obese women experienced increased blood flow to the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain directly behind the eyes. When compared to lean women, obese women had increased blood flow to a different part of the prefrontal cortex and greater decreases in blood flow to paralimbic areas (the area of the brain associated with emotion, mood and memory) and in areas of the frontal and temporal cortex (the area of the brain that helps to direct behavior). These differences in blood flow to the brain may affect when obese women feel full after eating.

Sources: Gautier JF, Del Parigi A, Chen K, Salbe AD, Bandy D, Pratley RE, Ravussin E, Reiman EM, Tataranni PA. Effect of Satiation on Brain Activity in Obese and Lean Women. Obesity Research 2001 Nov;9(11):676-684

article

AND I must say, I totally agree w/ Nat, Sylvie and Wa'il.

Regards,
Bren

good questions, rust--and I think you are wise to always be a skeptic, always research more, always stick to a high evidenciary requirement.

Have you read Adiposity 101 ? After reading it, I was both shocked/dismayed and yet not surprised at its thesis, which is (pretty much) it's nigh-on impossible to lose weight and keep it off. I regained weight rapidly after very low calorie dietinging by eating only 1200 calories per day, so clearly the old thermodynamic 3500 calories equals a pound business is a lie. Is LC the whole truth? Probably not. I don't lose miraculously on LC, either! But I am free of cravings, food obsessions, a number of minor health symptoms have disappeared and I'm leaner than I was. Most importantly, while I certainly was unable to keep at 500 calorie/day dieting for the long run, I think I can eat the way I'm eating now 59 days out of every 60 forever. (Can't promise perfection!)

Might doing LC eventually kill me through some heretofore unknown mechnism?...well, sure. So might eating apples, as it turns out, or fish, or toothpaste. Who knows? I can't fixate on possible dangers and yet try to stay educated. This reminds me, in a sort of odd way, of the statistic I once heard that for every minute your exercise, you'll likely add a minute to your life. The result of this clearly is, you trade in minutes now, in your youth, for some extra minutes in the nursing home! My conclusion to that? If you hate exercising, don't do it! You're just wasting perfectly good minutes! If you aren't enjoying LC eating, don't do it. If you think you can stay forever on another sort of diet (for in order to keep the weight off, you have to make permanent changes), choose that.

Sorry about your brother. I hope he is okay.

Thanks to all the above for responding to what turned out to be a bit of a rhetorical ramble.

The knowledgeable response that this forum elicits is one of the reasons I keep checking the posts.

Its scary to think that the food industry has so much invested in low fat that it is unlikely to undermine it by endorsing low carb or instigating research in that direction.

How will any of us laypeople really be able to get at the truth.

But, I tend to agree that I have found no credible research to counter low carb. What does and has impressed me (all credit to the founders of this site) is that a low carb diet is not a one size fits all approach. We all do it slightly differently. A tweak here a tweak there. It is useful to know what has worked for some and been a problem for others.

I rather wish The low carb gurus were not selling the concept but giving it away. Because there is always the suspicion that, just perhaps, they are putting a gloss on the science.

The New Eat in Moderation all Non Refined Foods Revolution by Rustpot just doesn't have a commercial ring about it.

Thanks for cheering me up

Glad to see that I am not alone in wanting to strangle every little ounce of proof out of something before I believe it!

Thank you, rustpot, for bringing up issues that I have also wondered about. I just brought up a similar issue of doubt in Research/Media Issues, but have not yet received an answer to my inquiry. Basically, are there several paths to a healthy WOE/WOL (specifically directed towards the traditional Japanese diet)? I would love if you offered any opinion in the debate.
How is your brother? A very intense time!

Adiposty 101, razzle, what a bomb! Poured through it and agree that it isn't very surprising, but startling that we (the world we) have allowed this to happen and continue on without learning from history.

Just a suggestion, you might get a better response if you creat a new thread over there specific to your topic. Some just browse through the thread titles, and your question would be missed, since it's in the middle of another thread.

Wa'il

Actually there is a reply there There has been for a few hours.

Nat

Read The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald.

No, the proper name of this one is The Schwarzbein Principle. I've been reading it and I thought of you and your love for apples. Schwarzbein would like you to eat an apple. I'm going to stick with what's working for me, though. Atkins/PP has been miraculous for me. I wish it would reproduce the same results for everyone.

You might like Schwarzbein. It's a great read even if you have no intention of following suit.

Allison

My brothers surgery has been successful. A section of colon was removed and fortunately there had been no spread of the cancer to other organs. The prognosis is very good. No chemo required.

Relief all round

hi Rusty,

That is good news about your brother! Thankyou for letting us know. (I was secretly wondering )

Here's to a speedy recovery!

Doreen

I'm one of those people who likes a diet for its results and how good it makes me feel - yet I am very interested in and need to be convinced by the science behind it as well.

My views on Atkins and similar diets is that the basic structure is likely to work well for almost anyone who needs to lose weight but that most of us will tweak it in some way to make it work for us as individuals - we're all unique in our own way, after all.

I am actually not too bad at maintaining weight - once I'd put it all on, I just never really got it off but it tended to stay around the same level. My intentions for maintaining my goal weight (once I get there) are to basically live the low carb life and centre my eating around protein, fats, vegetables, and some fruits - but not to go crazy and beat myself up if I have a piece of bread or small serve of pasta or even chocolate or icecream (don't anybody shoot me of kick me out of the forum!!!) once or twice a month. I'm not sure that I'll have the strength to avoid these foods altogether for the rest of my life - they're everywhere! What I do know is that I have a sure fire plan to attack cravings or lose a couple of pounds if things go pear-shaped on special occasions or holidays and so on.

I agree with what everyone says (esp rustpot) about the food industry (and I think the medical profession and dietary industry) having a vested interest in keeping everyone eating high carb low fat food. Just about every second product I pick up in a supermarket says "97% fat free" or "new low fat formula" - this stuff has MORE carbs that it's high fat version! I wish I could go in there and see "5g carb per serve" or "new sugar-free formula"!

Rebecca