There is a difference in how "fat" (I hate that word) people are treated versus non "fat" people. I am overweight, but you would not know it to look at me, so I am told by my peers. When I was much heavier I was very much picked on and ridiculed, my ex husband even divorced me because of it. when we got married was a very thin runner, very active. I got in a bad car wreck and gained alot of weight. I went from weighing 130 to almost 200 lbs. And the way I was treated by people (even my own family!!!) was very different indeed. As a "thin" (average weight I think) I am veiwed very different and I had a boss tell me one time that I was hired on the a job because the owner of the establishment needed a "looker" out front. The other lady who was much more qualified than I, lost out on the higher paying job. I felt very used at that point, and very bad about how I got the job after that.

now, I work at a job where there are almost only "fat" women. I love these women, they are funny, and make going to work fun....but, they do pick on me because I am thinner then they are. They harp on my diet plan all the time and try to exclude me from things stating things like "only real women here" and "when are you going to eat like a real person" things like that. So I guess in some ways it goes both ways, lookism is not right, any way it goes.

This is simply an ignorant statement. He hasn't seen it, so it must not happen. That's like saying that since I've never actually witnessed a murder, it's never happened. People see what they want to see. You'll never convince him otherwise. Don't waste your energy.

Please don't use the word "retarded" as an insult. Mentally challenged people, like my sister, didn't choose to be "retarded" any more than you chose to be overweight. Actually, she had less to do with being "retarded" than you had with being overweight.

If we're going to be offended by people who treat overweight people poorly, then we have to be just as sensitive to how we treat other people who are different.

Why? Because they don't fit some arbitrary standard of beauty it's okay to treat them badly (and it's not "different"...it's just plain bad treatment)?
I find multiple body piercings distasteful and unattractive. Does that make it okay for me to be rude and discriminate against those people just because I find it unattractive and they chose to do that to their bodies? How much of being treated "differently" is okay and when does it cross the line into being unacceptable?
When you meet someone who is overweight or see an overweight person out in public, how do you know that they haven't already lost a significant amount of weight and are doing everything they can to improve their health? You don't, unless you first get to know them.
As someone already pointed out, many people got overweight doing everything that conventional medical wisdom says they should do only to find themselves heavier than before. How is it okay to "punish" the overweight by treating them "differently" simply because they haven't yet found the answer that they are seeking or because you or anyone else don't think they're working hard enough at it?

Hi

I have been overweight through much of my life. I started gaining around
age 10 and it has gone up and up ever since. I believe I have been treated very poorly by peoiple due to my weight.

I was dumped by my very first bf because I was overweight (I was 160 pounds then) and his parents and brothers could not understand how he could be going out with such a fat person.

My last bf recently dumped me and I believe my weight had something to do with that as well. He even outright told me my weight embarrased him on our first anniversary. It sure hurt as he was overweight himself and his weight was not an issue for me. I saw him for who he was that day.

I have been told by my father over the years I do not need to eat certain things and he wonders why now we are not very close. Duh.

I am criticised by my own sons at times and I have heard things from my own siblings as well as so called friends. I have seen looks by ppl and been taunted at by teenagers driving past me in cars as I walked down the street minding my own business.

I could count on one hand people who never said anything bad to me or about me regarding my weight.

Do I think fat discrimination exists? Damn right I do!!!!!!!

Well, Hello Mr. Stereotyper! I know lots of fat people who are fat for a variety of reasons. Some because of illness, or injury, some because of depression, some because its genetic, some because they tried to eat a healthy diet called Low-fat and it made them fatter.

I used to be a budding martial artist, until my knees got too bad for it (another genetic condition), and I was still fairly hefty depsite many days a week of intense physical conditioning. In fact, quite a few of the very good martial artists were stout. But damn, they could probably kick you and your sterotypes into the next county. Those folks weren't lazy, they were just big.

I personally wouldn't leap to the conclusions about fat people like you did because my eating patterns that were caused by my diet are probably 90% responsible for my being overweight. It had nothing to do with laziness or will power, but a lot to do with suffering from hunger from rising and falling blood sugar.

Stereotypes or not, they were developed on truth.

I've met very few fat people in my life that actually had legitimate health problems that caused them to be that way and I know A LOT of fat people. Milwaukee, WI is one of the fattest cities in the country. I've met some that developed problems AFTER they had already become fat that hurt their ability to lose the weight, but only 2 people that I know were 'genetically' fat or had problems that made them big.

Perhaps things are different in other parts of the world and 95% of fat people can blame their problems on other issues or people (like McDonalds and the media), but most of the fat people I know (over 40, including friends, family, coworkers, etc) got that way because we ate poorly and didn't exercise.

Its unfair to the few people that are fat, because of health reasons, but the fact remains that most of us are fat, because of their lifestyles and unfortunately they are grouped in with us.

What would you say is the ratio of fat people that are that way, because of health reasons in comparison to those that just didn't eat right?

1:1? 1:2? 1:1000?

I don't know the stats, but I'd be willing to bet that 95% or more of the 'overweight' people in this country are not that way, because of health problems. They're that way, because of their lifestyles.

No. Stereotypes are not necessarily based on truth. They are more likely based on observations of a limited segment of that population on which the observer jumps to conclusions. Something along the lines of "all the cows in my area are brown, therefore all cows are brown." Then the observer convinces others that their observation is valid and a stereotype is born.
Webster defines Stereotype as: "An idea that many people have about a thing or a group of people that may often be untrue, or only partially true."



Really? And they had all been tested to rule out insulin resistance (which probably 60% of the overweight population has) or thyroid problems?
None of them had stressed Adrenals or PCOS? None of them ever had to take medications that are known to cause weight gain? Wow...you live in a pretty unusual neighborhood.
I'd like to point out that often you can't tell by casual observation whether a person has any of the above health problems; they can only be discovered through blood tests. Often the person who has them doesn't realize it unless their doctor is astute enough to do the bloodwork and verify it.
Sorry, I still don't buy the assertion that overweight people should be treated differently because "it's all their fault" simply because there is no way for the casual observer to determine that so the person treating the overweight person badly is doing so based on a sterotype and jumping to conclusions which are more likely than not....incorrect.

Then again...every good lie has at least a grain of truth in it...that's what makes lies believable.

Yes, absolutely. The more I lose, the more attention I receive from everyone-- not just people who might be sexually attracted to me. It pisses me off, because as someone above said, I'm still the same person.

People think it's fine to discriminate against fat people, because fat people can "do something about it." F*** that. Yes, I am able to lose weight, and I'm doing it, but it's hard work, and I'm just really fortunate to have found this eating plan. If it was easy to lose weight, I'd have done it before now.

Worse, fatphobia leads people to some really unhealthy behaviors and conditions, which can be deadly.

And, as with most types of oppression, there are activists out there fighting it, trying to raise awareness of the issue.

http://www.naafa.org/fatf/
http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues.../bodyimage.html
http://www.lustydevil.com/fatgirl/
http://www.law-nerd.org/art/fat.html

Of course, on the flip side, I have friends (lesbians, feminists) who are concerned that I'm losing weight, because they don't me to get all messed up about my body image, etc. My decision to lose weight is somehow balanced against the oppressive nature of fatphobia in society, so there are issues.

For me it's been the opposite. I've never had a problem getting the jobs I wanted. And I've done well in them and been respected. That is except for my very first job where I had to fight and "change my name" to be taken seriously (I made people call me Deborah instead of Debbie -- remember Debbie Does Dallas?).

But men are a different subject -- not just being ignored, but ridiculed and snubbed. And I haven't dropped enough weight to make a difference yet. We'll see. If there is a change, it'll be fun saying no.

But I do have to say that not all men are like that. The men I work with now, and I'm in a male-dominated field, are very accepting and respectful of me and even occassionally compliment my appearance.

Good for your Tcastro, I like to see someone who is dealing with reality on a personal basis.

I think this whole thread is a bit off course, or confused.

The premise seems to be that fat people are discriminated against, and that, that is fairly unique, and very unfair.

The premise is correct regarding the unfairness, but very much incorrect on the uniquness aspect.

The sad truth is that discrimination is the norm in human relations, and fat is just one of thousands of discrete issues on which humans discriminate against each other. Someone who is different from the local group is almost certain to suffer discrimination. Usually, unfair discrimination, but not always. Who doesn't want to discriminate against psycopaths, serial killers and rapists?

Right now fatness is a big issue in Western culture, and it should be.

One of the main reasons that I have changed to an Atkins WOL is because I realized that my obesity was a health problem, a symptom of depression and self-hate, and a burden for heathier members of my family.

Anyone who has a problem with recognizing that obesity is a problem for him/herself should go and see a psychiatrist in the morning, IMHO.

Why are you strugglling with making Atkins a successful WOL if you do not see that the discrimination against the obese if based in realistic worries about health, mobility, sexual desirabilty, and a healthy self image??

Don't watch TV so much, think for yourself. Please!

I agree that discrimnation against fat people is not unique, but to say that it's because people care is totally unrealistic. The discrimination I've felt and witnessed of all types has never been because the discriminator cared about the person they were discriminating against. Discrimination (prejudice) is just plain wrong. We discriminate against people to give ourselves a higher sense of worth -- to convince ourselves that we are somehow better than the next person -- or because we do not understand or cannot accept the person's differences. And I know from experience that it's very hard not to discriminate and I still have problems with it.

Well, we might just have to agree to disagree.

I happen to think that discrimination is to prejudice as intelligent, informed analysis is to ignorance.

Being a person of discrimination, of detailed analysis and having the ability to distinguish objective differences, is a highly desirable human characteristic, and a hallmark of professionals in the analytical fields.

Being prejudiced, or being a person who exersizes prejudices as part of everyday life is the height of ignorance, and, to me, means the person has not ability to discriminate in a rational manner.

I have not heard you say anything about my point regarding the value of being able to quickly and accuratley discriminate against serial killers and rapists in the local community??

Gettin pretty philosophical here, ain't we?? heh

I think we will just have to agree to disagree. I think the basic premise here is that prejudice and discrimination against the overweight (it's not just the very obese here) is one of the last socially acceptable forms of prejudice and discrimination. As someone pointed out, racial slurs and jokes are no longer socially acceptable on public TV and radio and yet nobody has a problem with fat jokes in those same mediums. An employer can refuse to hire you based on the fact that you are obese and you would have no legal recourse, while they cannot deny you employment because of your race, gender, or religion.
I wont deny that prejudice in other areas still exists. We just happen to be discussing this one at the moment because it directly impacts most of us. Perhaps men are less subject to it than women because they are more apt to pop someone in the mouth if they have something nasty to say to them?



I am making low carb a WOL for myself because I know that I have medical problems that this alleviates but to say that every person who has taunted me, the total strangers who have made rude and hurtful comments in public, clerks who have ignored me in stores, etc...are doing it "because they care" is just pure boloney. Prejudice and discrimination is nearly always rooted in a need to feel superior to the group being prejudiced against.
BTW...I see noone has yet addressed my question regarding how much prejudice against the obese is okay and should be socially acceptable and I'll add: at what BMI does it become acceptable/unacceptable?



I really hope that you aren't lumping the obese in with psychopaths, serial killers and rapists, most of which you cannot identify through casual observation; they look like everyone else.
Once they are caught and found guilty of a crime, yup...they're incarcerated. That's not discrimination; it's punishment and protecting the general public from a menace.

Lisa, in my opinion, no level of prejudice against the overweight and obese is acceptable nor to any other group or individual.

I do accept that men (and women too) have personal preferences about the appearance of the people to whom they are attracted. And there are men who are attracted to large women. But to turn that around and treat people to whom you are not attracted disrespectfully, that is wrong. As I said in an earlier post, the men I work with are not attracted to me, but they do treat me respectfully. And they don't treat other large women disrespectfully or make fat jokes, etc. (and we can get pretty off-color in our joking in the office too), at least not in my presence, so it's not just me they respect.

And perhaps we should make the distinction between prejudice and discrimination except that there are two connotations to discrimination -- 1. as W.W. described it in an analytical capacity, and 2. in the same context as prejudice. I think we've been discussing discrimination in this thread in the second context where it is not acceptable.