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  #1   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 06:41
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default Ketosis and Sugar Alcohols

I am trying to figure out why sugar alcohols or too many of them knock me out of ketosis?

I know for a fact that I do not get a blood sugar spike since I have tested it a bunch of times but could my body still be producing a lot of insulin from these products even though my blood sugar doesnt go up?

I know I am obviously confused and missing something somewhere but I hope someone can please enlighten me.

From my understanding if my body thought the sugar alcohols were sugar I would get a blood sugar response as well as an insulin response.

Can one happen without the other? Why is the result so dramatic with sugar alcohols?
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  #2   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 06:52
Squid's Avatar
Squid Squid is offline
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Plan: general LC
Stats: 195/142/148 Female 65
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I'm curious about this as well as I've noticed the same thing with myself. The sugar alcohols and splenda most definitely push me out of ketosis even though the net carbs are below 20.

I assumed it was because these are carbs but not counted by atkins in the net carb account. It seems they do affect ketosis although maybe not enough to spike blood sugar. Just a thought. Curious what others have to say.

Squid
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  #3   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 07:31
toning_up toning_up is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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I also get knocked out of ketosis by them. I assume that seeing they are treated by the body as alcohols, then ketosis ceases until they are burned just like it would with regular drinking alcohol. That's the only thing I can think of anyway.
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  #4   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 07:32
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
Butter Tastes Better
Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

alcohol wont knock you out of ketosis though. Your body will burn the alcohol first but should still produce ketones.
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  #5   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 10:15
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Dodger Dodger is online now
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Plan: Paleoish/Keto
Stats: 225/167/175 Male 71.5 inches
BF:18%
Progress: 116%
Location: Longmont, Colorado
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If the sugar alcohols are being used for energy, then your body does not need to use fat as an energy source. Therefore ketones will not be produced. It depends upon how many extra calories you are taking in from sugar alcohols.
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  #6   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 10:55
she_laughs she_laughs is offline
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Default An article that may make sense of it

I've been using Atkins bars for quite awhile, and I too, believe that it has prevented weight loss. I was researching Glycerin and found the following article, which may help us understand. I do not know the author, so I cannot comment on the scientific validity. Use your own judgement.


http://www.countcarbs.com/advice/making_the_case.htm


Making the Case to Count Sugar Alcohols

The Atkins Diet has been with us since the 1970's. Over the years many changes have come along - more vegetables, more salads, changes to artificial sweetener options, limiting caffeine, etc. - all for the better.

One major change, appears to be for the worse...that is the introduction of sugar alcohols as "acceptable" and "deductible" from total carbs for carbohydrate intake during Induction.

In the article "To Count or Not to Count?" we offer a few different ways you may want to count these polyols. However, during Induction on Atkins, not using these products and/or counting them completely minus only the fiber they contain is what we recommend for your greatest potential for losing weight during your first two weeks.

It is during your first two weeks that you'll measure your capacity to lose weight. Including polyols (sugar alcohols, glycerin, etc.) may reduce your losses significantly (or stall your efforts completely) so you will not have an accurate measure of your "resistance" to weight loss. Without knowing it - because you have included polyols in your daily eating - you may lose less than you could if you didn't eat any of these products and may even think - due to poor results - that you're more resistant than you really are to losing weight.

What prompted Atkins' Nutritionals to include polyols where they once forbid them?

For one thing, by 2002, Atkins had a growing line of products - as did a number of manufacturers in the market using sugar alcohols and glycerin. Within 2002 there was also the research specifically into Atkins and weight-loss with results to be released in the summer - results Atkins and others had to know was going to be positive.....imagine the potential of these products with more people paying attention to low-carb eating and finally buying-in to the idea that limiting sugars/starches results in weight-loss?

In the 1998 version of the book, Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution, it states:
"Sweeteners such as sorbitol, mannitol and other hexitols (sugar alcohols) are not allowed, nor are any natural sweeteners ending in the letters -ose, such as maltose, fructose, etc."

Where in the 2002 version this was eliminated and the recommendation now read: ..."Although it is important that you eat primarily unprocessed foods, some controlled carb food products can come in handy when you are unable to find appropriate food, can’t take time for a meal or need a quick snack. More and more companies are creating healthy food products that can be eaten during the Induction phase of Atkins."

Where prior to 2002 Atkins' specifically restricted any use by those on Induction of these ingredients - they were now allowed in the 2002 revision.....there was no new science to show properties of the ingredients to suggest they should be dismissed as having a carb value to count. The only real change going on was that Atkins Nutritionals and other companies (like EAS, Think Thin, etc.) were all growing their lines of controlled-carb products.

This at the same time the FDA was clamping down on the labeling practice that was growing within the controlled-carb food industry - that is they were not even listing any carbs from sugar alcohol ingredients like maltitol or glycerin - the FDA clamped down and mandated the carbs must be included in the label since they are in there!

With the mandated requirement that these companies had to include the carbs for glycerin & sugar alcohols - so too came the new explanation as to why they don't count - that one was allowed to deduct them because they did not impact blood sugar levels.

But the logic used to dismiss the carbs doesn't hold up.....we're told these ingredients don't impact blood sugar significantly -- so what? Neither do the carbs in green vegetables, nuts, seeds, cantaloupe, cherries, etc......the carbs from all of these foods are counted so why aren't the carbs in these products counted? Do they have a magical property about them, like no calories? No. Do they pass through the body like fiber? No. Do they not get used for energy? No. Do they not turn into some form of glucose? No.

Impact on blood sugar is NOT how we decide to count or not count a carb! Low impact on blood sugar is what low glycemic-index and low glycemic-load choices do - and they are still counted. Low-carb eating revolves around making your best choices from those things that are low glycemic-index and low glycemic-load -- but the carbs still count!

Overall these products are "controlled-carb" products - that is they offer a unique taste without impacting blood sugar (in most people) -- but they have carbs in them -- and the manufacturers have created a smokescreen to try to convince us that they don't count, even though other low-carb items must be counted!

If a carb is metabolized, it needs to be counted - period.

There is no unique property to a sugar alcohol or to glycerin that makes it indigestible or not metabolized.....the body doesn't dismiss it, why should we when we're counting carbs?

Fiber isn't metabolized - not only does it not impact blood sugar, it also isn't digested by the body - it doesn't count.

Can the same be said for sugar alcohols or glycerin? NO.....both are metabolized in the body - they may not impact blood sugar, but they are metabolized - you cannot exclude the carbs in there because they are in there and they do get metabolized.

Many of the protein & candy bars out there have upwards of 20g of carbs when you include the sugar alcohols or glycerin - typically 200-240 calories also. They also typically have 1g to 2g of fiber - leaving upwards of 18g of carbs that you're told to dismiss.....for convenience? for a meal replacement? because it doesn't impact blood sugar? Does this make sense to you when you really think about it?????

If you chose instead to have a 1/2 cup of cantaloupe, wouldn't you count the 6g net carbs it has? Why? They're there! They aren't going to send your blood sugars spiraling up, but you count them because they're there!

The choice about counting the carbs that are in these products is still your choice - but forewarned is fairwarned!
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 12:36
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Quote:
If a carb is metabolized, it needs to be counted - period.

There is no unique property to a sugar alcohol or to glycerin that makes it indigestible or not metabolized.....the body doesn't dismiss it, why should we when we're counting carbs?


I could have sworn I read somewhere that sugar alcohols were not digested and thats why we subtracted them.

If that is true and all the carbs from sugar alcohols need to be counted how is is all these companies tell us not to. There has to be something else there.

All I know is when I have more than I should of sugar alcohols I get knocked out of ketosis, which I guess would make sense if it is turning sugar alcohols into glucose and metabolizing them like normal carbs... but then wouldnt that show with increased blood sugar levels?
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  #8   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 16:36
cheeze's Avatar
cheeze cheeze is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 210/115/110 Female 4'10"
BF:32%
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sugar alcohols are partially digested, powdered or packet splenda uses maltodextrin as a filler and has carbs also, if you consume enough of either or both you can knock yourself out of ketosis
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  #9   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 17:15
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

According to what was written in the article above it made it seem like all of it was digested.

Also, I know that too much granular splenda can knock you out of ketosis due to the maltodextrin bulker but what about liquid splenda. Could too much of that knock you out of ketosis too?
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  #10   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 19:53
cheeze's Avatar
cheeze cheeze is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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liquid splenda has no carbs, I've used it and it has never knocked me out of ketosis
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  #11   ^
Old Sat, Feb-21-04, 20:23
Dawna Dawna is offline
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Default

It's my understanding that manufacturers take liberties with the truth because there is no present federal regulation that stops them. Until the FDA gets into the act it's going to be a "buyer beware" or "if it's too good to be true" deal.
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  #12   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 06:40
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
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Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
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Location: SF Bay Area
Default

What I want to know is what studies were done on sugar alcohols to make people believe that they are not digested or partially digested and then if the carbs in SA do count but do not spike blood sugar how many carbs are we supposed to count for sugar alcohols?

Why are sugar alcohols digested differently from other AS?
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  #13   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 07:29
cheeze's Avatar
cheeze cheeze is offline
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Plan: Atkins
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  #14   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 11:41
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kingb123 kingb123 is offline
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 213/170/155 Male 6'
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Default

Yesterday I binged and ate 4 low carb bars. I felt awful, both for losing control and because I had sever diareahha and gas lol. I was in pain. I worked out though afterwards as that usually seems to cancel out cheats and I actually lost today. It is probably just water from the trips to the bathroom, but I did drink 6 liters yesterday so I should be hydrated and at least I didn't gain. I guess that means my body does not use sugar alcohols like the real thing.
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  #15   ^
Old Sun, Feb-22-04, 15:48
MyJourney's Avatar
MyJourney MyJourney is offline
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Posts: 5,201
 
Plan: Atkins OWL / IF-23/1 /BFL
Stats: 100/100/100 Female 5'6"
BF:
Progress: 34%
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
I guess that means my body does not use sugar alcohols like the real thing.


I dont think its a case of your body using SA like the real thing. I have lost weight eating sugar alcohols before... It doesnt impact my blood sugar either so obviously my body doesnt view it as the real thing.. what concerns me is why it knocks me out of ketosis.

I know that too much granular splenda because of the maltodextrin can have some bad effects but how should I count sugar alcohols.

I mean obviously there is some type of reaction my body is having to them or I am not sure what is needed to keep your body in ketosis but too many sugar alcohols will knock me out.
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