There is a thread in the TDC where we’ve been discussing water intake. As all good threads go, the discussion branched out. We started debating the pro’s and con’s of AS beverages and I wrote the following post, but since it’s off the thread topic, I thought I might find more responses in the General Low Carb forum.

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I'm confused about the whole sweetener / insulin response issue. I read in a lot of places that aspartame "tricks" your mind into believing it's sweet, it's not 'truly' sweet. I don't believe this.

All tastes, whether 'real' or 'fake' sweet / salty / bitter / sour is interpreted by our brains, right? Our tongue only collects data, it's not the determining factor whether something is real or not.

Wouldn't *any* sweet thing, including stevia, produce a bit of insulin response, but once our GI tract realizes there isn't any need to back up that initial IR with more insulin (since there are no carbs to process), it shuts down? And wouldn't it vary by individual how big a spike is created in the first place?

I'd appreciate any comments and opinions on this issue. Thanks!


PS - I know aspartame has other potential health risks, but this question really addresses the Insulin Response to sweets without carbs.

It depends on teh person.

For the carbohydrate addicts diet they state that any thing sweet will produce an insulin response in a true carbohydrate addict. They also don't let you subtract fiber carbs in the belif that for an addict, all carbs matter.

About all you can do is see how they effect you perosnally. The best probable way is to get a blood sugar tester, but that is also painful and expencive You can try just monitoring yourselkf to see how you react after having sweetners. Are you hungry sooner then youwould normally be, or feel like snacking even though you aren't that hungry? Do you get cravings for other foods or talk yourself easily into LC treats after having sweetners? ect.

I dunno, it really seems to me that there would be no insulin response without sugar, actually, being in the bloodstream. Insulin aids in "pushing" the glucose into the cells when they are being stubborn. The more stubborn these cells are the more insulin is need to do the job, hence the term, insulin resistance. Therefore, insulin won't spike without glucose being present in the blood stream. IMHO, any other reaction could be compared to Pavlov's dog. The taste of something sweet could easily lead to an instant craving for more sweets.

Besides, not all carbohydrates are sweet in taste. If you have ever tasted the glucose that is made for diabetics it is hard to believe that it would cause any type of insulin spike. But any carb that is absorbed into the bloodstream is treated equally.If you eat protein with a carb, it will slow the carbohydrate's absorption into the bloodstream, therefore slowing the spike of insulin. JMHO.

Black57

Thanks for your responses!

LadyBelle, I already test my blood sugar, but insulin can't be measured by a glucose monitor. I guess you could time how long your BS stays elevated before insulin sucks the sugar up, but I think it would be hard to get an accurate picture. Plus, AS don't raise my BS, anyways.

BTW, if you know anyone who is having a painful time checking their sugars, I highly recommend the Freestyle monitor. It's the one advertised on TV with the little girl 'Hannah' who hates having her finger stuck. I cannot believe how pain free it is!! I test on my forearm and don't feel a thing.

I don't believe I am a carb addict, as in denial / revolutionary as that may sound. It was relatively easy for me to start and stay LC, and I rarely have cravings for anything off plan. Whether they make me hungrier or not, I don't know. I'll pay more attention. Thanks for the suggestion!!

Black57, very interesting. You've got a good point that insulin in released in response to *carbs*, not necessarily sweets. I know that saliva is the first break down point for carbohydrates (not protein or fat), so perhaps that is where the signal to the brain comes from, not taste.

Also, your Pavlov's Dog analogy is good because it would follow that over time, after your body becomes accustom to LC, the automatic 'sweet --> insulin' response would lesson. Our bodies are wise enough not to waste precious hormones when we don't need them.


I knew it was a good idea asking this question here. I've got lots to think about!

Thanks very much ...

I saw a study within the last two months that concluded consuming artificial sweetners does not raise blood glucose levels or insulin. I think a reference to it was even posted here somewhere.

I agree. I think people who feel aspartame causes physical cravings are actually experiencing psychological ones. It makes no physiological sense that your body would produce insulin when blood sugar was not actually elevated.

Physical or psychological, if something causes you to lose your willpower it is better if it is avoided, IMO.

AntiM, just a minor correction. Insulin does not suck-up or absorb glucose. One of its jobs is to "soften" the cells of the body so that THEY can absorb the glucose. Once the carb/sugar hits the blood stream it is transformed into glucose. The cells will communicate to the pancreas, via the brain, that they cannot consume the glucose. The pancreas then says "OK, I will send in some insulin to help you out." So then, it will send a little bit of the stuff only as the cells need it. If the cells are too tough, more insulin is sent to "push" the glucose. With a type II diabetic, the cells are so tough that the insulin cannot do a thorough enough job, therefore unused glucose is spilled into the urine.

Consider me corrected, Black57. I vaguely understood all that before, but your explanation is so clear I'm going to have to consider replacing my mental 'Pacman' image of insulin. {darn it!}

Nancy ~ I wish you could remember where you saw that! I tried a bunch of searches and couldn't find the information ... Sounds very interesting.

Artificial sweeteners do not have a direct effect on blood sugar or insulin, according to Dr. Bernstein in "Diabetes Solution". However, if you use powdered sweeteners, be aware that the FILLER used for the powder is a high-glycemic carb that can and will raise blood sugar and insulin. Maltodextrin and/or dextrose are most often used. Liquid forms use water as the "filler", so there's no carbs .. and tablet forms contain a much smaller amount of carb, usually 1/10th of a gram of lactose per tablet.


Doreen

I was curious about this too so I bought a monitor to check out the theory. Nothing! No rise in blood sugar. So I started thinking about it...

Artificial sweeteners are mainly in desserts. After eating and feeling satisfied - in other words, I left no room for dessert - I would have dessert. Low carb desserts when they're cream, butter and cream cheese based contain a whopping amount of calories, so I was adding a huge amount of calories to my daily intake. I know calories are not supposed to count, but in some cases they do.

I was overeating. I was happy with what I ate but wanted something sweet. My body was quite fine with protein and vegetables but I wanted more! And it wasn't more protein and vegetables. Pigging out won't help me lose fat, especially if my body has sent me the satisfied signal. And because I like the sweet things so much, I would want to eat more of them because it was pleasurable.

I am addicted to sweets. Sugar makes me high and I was a sugar junkie for a long time. Artificial sweeteners are methadone for me. I get the pleasure but not the buzz. So when I eat artificial sweeteners on a regular basis, I keep myself attached to the past. In the past, I was fat and miserable. In the present I'm not. I want to stay in the present and keep moving forward.

Karen

While you can't monitor the amount of insulin released, I thought your blood sugar dropped in response. That is why when a hyperglycemic has something high carb, the responding insulin rush pushes the blood sugar too low making them feel even worse. While you can't see the insulin, you could see how low your blood sugar drops after the initial spike. The goal being to have balance with no spikes or lows.

I like sweets too. And I semi-count calories while on Atkins as well, because I do stall if I eat too much. But I don't seem to overdo on the AS stuff usually.

I am finding things like hot fruity tea with AS is actually satisfying to me. Also I'm able to consume one small fraction of a AS sweetened chocolate bar (like 1/4 or 1/5 of a serving) and be satisfied. Something I couldn't have done on low fat diet. The whole bar would have gone down my throat before I knew what was happening. That's the weirdest thing about this diet... I gots self-control for the first time in my life.

True, the filler has calories, carbs, and definitely raises bs and insulin. I learned that the hard way, several tablespoons of splenda over the holidays ago . My mind was foggy, I felt shaky and irritable... just how I used to feel pre atkins.

I never experienced those symptoms with non caloric sweetners or even sugar alcohols. Only when I took in too much maltodextrin/dextrose filler.

Yes, this is true, and remember it is the stubborn cells that causes the insulin to go up. With the excess insulin the glucose is overly absorbed by the cells and that terrible sugar drop is what we experience. According to Protein Power ther is a test that can be taken to measure insulin response. As a matter of fact this test is often needed to diagnose hypoglycemia ( hyperglycemia is synonomous to diabetic ). I have had glucose tests that never tested positive for hypoglycemia although the symptoms tell me diferently. If I had the insulin test I am sure it would prove it.