Like Alina in Germany, we're lucky in the UK not to have easy access to low-carb products. But I know that artificially sweetened drinks, gum, and sweets spike my appetite as much as the real thing, and I avoid them. For me, it's not a question of portion control but of learning to avoid foods that interfere with my natural appetite. That's what Atkins has taught me--as long as I keep the carbs low, I can trust myself to eat the right amount without thinking. In my experience, people don't eat too much because they haven't learned moderation, or portion control ( how many people really couldn't put the right amounts on a plate if asked?), but because they are eating foods which ginger up their appetites. Appetite is an incredibly powerful instinct, and you can deny it for only so long. The longer you overeat carbs/appetite stimulants, the greater the problem becomes, because it leads to insulin resistance and impaired glucose tolerance and an even more out-of-control appetite.

I also think that bingeing is more than just psychological. Eating disorders often seem to start with low-fat dieting, and I wonder if so many would get into trouble if they started on a low-carb diet instead (assuming they stayed off the processed stuff). If the current low-carb trend continues, perhaps we will see a reduction in bingeing disorders in future?

As for variation, I agree real food is the best way. I eat half a slice of bread a day (traditionally made) and a little 70%chocolate, and these don't cause any problems. A LITTLE of what you fancy....

this posting was great! oprah should do a show on what you have to say. where can I find free sites on the omega method?

I don' t think the kind of diet makes any difference at all to the likelihood that one will develop an eating disorder, because they really aren't about food at all. Yes, they often start with low-fat diets, but that's because they start with normal dieting behavior, which has been predominantly low-fat for the last couple decades. Any controlled eating behavior, including low-carb, can slide into eating-disordered behavior if the underlying psychological conditions are right. If you look around these forums, you can certainly find instances of anorexia, and many more examples of binge-eating. Also, if you're going to binge, you can do so on whole, low-carb foods as well as on low-carb goodies or high-carb processed foods. It's not the calorie/carb/fat intake that defines a binge, but the pattern of eating abnormally large quantities of a food, exhibiting unusual behaviors like wolfing the food down, and complete dissociation from normal signals of hunger or fullness. This can just as well be accomplished with bacon, cheese, butter, chicken wings, or pork rinds & dip as with Atkins ice cream or a loaf of bread.

I understand what you're saying about insulin resistance and appetite issues leading to bingeing, but I think that's more of a carbohydrate-addict phenomenon than a true binge eating disorder. It's true that one looks a lot like the other, and that they often overlap and reinforce each other, but carbohydrate addiction is a physical thing while binge eating is psychological. While people with tendencies toward CA can manage them by sticking to a whole-food, low-carb diet, people with true ED tendencies are going to develop them no matter what kind of WOE they follow.

Atlee-- I agree with you. There MAY be a chemical component, but IMHO, binge disorder stems more from emotional issues than what food you choose.

Personally, I feel the substitutes are a great thing. If you use them to replace high-carb "cheats" and don't use the excuse "it's low-carb, I can eat the whole BOX" I really feel having an alternative can mean the difference between success and failure to me. They HELP me learn portion control, even, since I'm mindful of how many carbs there are in a portion, and actually read the label to determine what a "serving" really IS.

I don't dispute the idea that the more whole, real foods you eat the better off you are. I just think there's room for a few of the new conveniences to help stay on-plan, and add more pleasure to mealtime.

The issue of LC products have come up on this board before. Some people love them, some hate the idea of substituting "real" food with "LC crap". I lean toward the second group, primarily because I wonder how many people will fail on Atkins because they don't use them responsibly and then blame it on the Atkins WOE. Dr. Atkins didn't advocate using these LC products...the company that goes by the "Atkins" name bought it. I am glad these products are available for folks who wouldn't be able to stick to this WOE without them, or for those who find they make sticking to this WOE easier. However, I certainly wouldn't recommend them to anyone just starting a LC WOE. I quit losing weight when I use them and have read many posts where other people say the same thing. IMHO, I find them a mixed blessing.

The awful truth is that yes, some people are very likely going to over-indulge on the processed LC products, fail, and believe that the LC lifestyle doesn't work (or at least not for them).

Companies, particularly in the US, are quick to sense a shift in consumer sentiment. They will rapidly shift to fill a perceived (or created!!!) void in the market. That's all you are seeing with the LC products. Of course it they aren't doing this out of altruism, it's to generate a profit. They also stand to lose profits if they don't offer LC products. So they're going to continue coming, like it or not. And we, the consumers, are one element of the picture.

Of all the posts responding to your initial question I think I agree most with Lisa, who seems to have a balanced view of these processed foods. As I've said in other posts, I don't have a philosophical issue with processed foods. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's good for you. Just because it's processed doesn't mean it's bad for you.

I will say this though. Living LC takes significant time out of my life. I spend much more time now researching foods, preparing them, and looking for recipes than I did before I cared about diet. I also now exercise. Not everyone who wants to lose weight the LC way has great quantities of free time. For such people, a LC microwaveble meal / candy bar / shake / etc. might be a godsend.

Just a few thoughts (and it's fun to play devil's advocate .

Oh yeah, and thanks for the excellent, thoughtful post!!

As a former binger, I can say that personally, I NEVER binged on low carb foods. Binges were invariably the french fry-cookie-ice cream bar kind.
As Dr. Atkins states in DANDR, people don't binge on steak, lobster, and salad. The thing bingers are looking for are the changes in their brain that occur with large quantities of carbohydrates; they are forcing the serotonin production and creating a little oasis of calm in a way they know will work.
Like any procedure that forces brain chemistry, the brain's backlask is to cut back on the artificially forced production, thus the "crash" of bouncing down lower than you were before. Which fuels the next binge.
It's definitely an emotional issue, but it works because of a physiological issue. Bingers eat for the "high" and then feel driven into the next binge because of the torments of the "low." It comes from picking this way of dealing with emotions, instead of a more productive way.
What you have with people who eat low carb junk instead of high carb junk is an inability to create real change in their eating habits. Not that different from buying a low fat cake instead of a high fat cake. Which also didn't work well.
It's not the availability of low carb products that is the problem; I think they are sensible alternatives in a situation where anything else would be high carb junk. If I run into a convenince store when I'm hungry and late, and I can grab an Atkins bar instead of a bag of Doritos, I am much better off.
When you had to program your own computer in binary language, very few people had computers. As we made it easier to use, we made it easier for people who had no idea what a computer was to screw it up.
It's an inevitable result.

While I tended to binge on carby things most often, the behavior is still there to deal with. It IS possible to still binge eat and be totally low-carb if you haven't dealt with the emotional aspects. The substitutes can awaken the same reflexive binge reaction as the "real thing" even without the biological payoff.... the reason I had to leave lc bread alone until I started to deal with my "issues". One slice led to another and another and another. It IS harder to binge on things like hardboiled eggs and meat, but it certainly can be done! There are any number of threads about uncontrolled eating of "legal" foods.

Once the behavioral aspect is dealt with, I really think there's a place for the substitutes. There's no real virtue in self-denial, IMHO. If I want a slice of lc bread or a lc candy bar as a PART of my balanced, mostly whole-food eating plan, I feel satisfied, and I'm still on plan.

I totally agree with adkpam - though I wasn't a binge eater (there was no secrecy or shame about my eating, meaning I never sat alone and ate a bag of cookies that sort of thing) I was a chronic over eater. It was a way for me to treat depression, but because of the way carbs affect mood it only made me feel worse later. Since switching to LC my moods are much better and I no longer feel the desire to over eat tremendously.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the LC food. It is the way the user uses them that is open to judgement. Food is a tool, it's fuel; if you abuse any tool you are going to see poor results. The more efficient the tool (and preprocessed food is very efficient), the greater chance of either noticeable success or noticable failure.

If a person uses the food the way they were meant to, that is for an emergancy substitute or a once in awhile snack, then it might mean the difference between success and failure. If a person uses the food to replace their old junk, this also might mean the difference between success and failure, unfortunately in the wrong direction.

I wouldn't put to much faith into LC foods. And if you do eat them read the labels very carefully. Just my 2 cents.

While it may be tempting for folks to eat lc subs for hc favorites I think besides the goal of losing weight most of us should also be concerned with our general health. I know for me whether high or low carb the point remains that as close to unprocessed as possible is better.......better for weight loss and better for our bodies and their chemical functioning.
I know the times I have hit major stalls is when I have started eating lc bars and chocolate.......not only do I react the same way as far as obsession over the frankenfood but I am starving and feel aweful..........the point is that too much of anything is not good for you.........lc or otherwise.
I have two sisters who are now lc'ing....one started this week......she told me she had bought some "shakes" for meal replacements.....I said DON'T Do IT!!
Stick to the real thing........permisable foodd....there is plenty for us to chose from~

Thanks, Gloria! But I'm afraid I can't help you with sites about the Omega Method. It's a Danish book, and the reason why I'm here is that apart from that book and Atkins' latest, it's very hard to find low-carb info in Denmark, since it hasn't really taken off here yet. But I can tell you that the Omega Method is very similar to the South Beach Diet (which I have also just bought), so if you're familiar with that, you know more or less what I eat.

Anyway, my observations are of a general nature, they could apply to just about any low-carb diet.

I wish it were true that you can't binge on LC food. I'm just as likely to binge on meat as on tortilla chips, if not more so. In fact it happened just this past Saturday. And I'd probably be a blimp if I lived in America, what with the enormous steaks you get there. I'm neither a carb addict nor a protein addict nor a fat addict - I'm capable of overdoing just about anything, and that's an emotional/psychological issue.

That's also one reason why I don't do Atkins. I don't deal well with overly restrictive diets that label certain foods as "sinful". It sends me into a downwards spiral of guilt and comfort eating that is very hard to break. That's why I'm on a more moderate diet that allows a bit of everything and doesn't have an induction period.

BTW, Weight Watchers has worked well for me in the past too, so I'm not of the opinion that low-carbing is the One True Way.

This just in: http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistor...eatures/2390670

It's a long article, so I won't quote it here, but raises some interesting points, so if you have the time for it, I suggest you read it. Seems we're not the only ones thinking about this issue.

Oddly enough, I don't remember Dr. Atkins referring to ANY food as "sinful". He did, however, refer to certain foods as high-carb, which would spike your blood sugar. His big issue was overly processed, refined, flour, sugar and additive laden food products that have become a major part of the American diet. He advocated going back to natural, wholesome food and eating healthy vegtables and fruits. But you already know that since you've read the book.