I was just reading a thread about the possible dangers of Splenda. A couple of days ago I read about how pizza manufacturers now feel they have to make low-carb pizzas in order to avoid losing money on the low-carb trend. To be honest, I'm beginning to worry.

I see very few people in here being honest and saying "I got fat because I ate the wrong things and didn't exercise enough." However, I do see a lot of people blaming the low-fat trend of the past couple of decades for their weight gain. To an extent they may be right. There was a great emphasis on cutting the fat out of ones diet, but let's be honest - we were also told to watch the calories, and if we had actually eaten less calories than we had spent, we would have lost weight. That's a fact, and in that sense, the "experts" were right. However, many people found the low-fat diet impossible to stick to because it left them hungry and they were bored with the choices.

Then came the low-fat options. Finally we could have our cake and eat it too! Manufacturers were able to turn just about anything into a "light" version. Problem was, to disguise the inferior taste caused by the lack of fat, they added sugar and all sorts of other bad things to their products, so the calorie count stayed the same, but we started eating more because it said "diet" or "light" on the pack. The result - well, we just have to look at ourselves and each other to see what happened.

Then low-carbing really kicked in. People discovered that if they ate more protein and fat but cut out the carbs, they felt less hungry, and they were more likely to stick to the diet, so all of a sudden, they started losing weight - lots of weight! And they didn't even have to count calories or fat grams. Sure, whether or not it's really good for you is still up for debate, but people are getting healthier just by losing the extra pounds.

But look what's happening now. We are beginning to make the same mistakes as last time. Low-carb bread, low-carb pizzas, low-carb substitutes for all sorts of things are coming out everywhere, highly processed and very tempting for the people who miss all their old favourites.

One (1) of the reasons why low-carbing works is that you cut certain things out of your diet. For instance, you stop eating potatoes. Now, nothing low-carb really resembles potatoes, so you decide to have some more veggies with your steak instead. Less calories, good fibre count - weightloss. But now imagine that someone invents a low-carb potato substitute. It has the same texture as a potato, you can bake it like a potato, maybe it doesn't quite have the same taste as the real thing, but that's easily disguised with a big dollop of butter. Oh yes, and whatever they made the low-carb potato of is packed with calories, but we don't need to count those, do we? Now all of a sudden you've got a great meal, and you're safe in the knowledge that the carb count is minimal.

Can you see what I'm getting at? With all these substitutes, I think we're about to make the same mistakes as we did with low-fat. Like the vegetarians who buy "I can't believe it's not meat" products, we still want our old favourites. And we still haven't learnt portion control, so instead of treating ourselves to one slice of real pizza once in a while, we now go out and buy a big fat fake pizza - no scratch that, we'll have Domino's deliver it straight to our door every Friday - and expect to keep losing weight!

There still is no easy way. We still have to use moderation, variation and exercise, or we'll never succeed. Otherwise we'll all meet again in 10 years on a forum for yet another new Way Of Eating, lamenting how we were misled by the low-carb "experts".

Let the discussion commence!

Amen - I couldn't agree with you more. It's getting to the point where I see people early in their LC journey and can guess pretty accurately whether or not they're going to be successful in the long run. The ones who seem to think, "to heck with cooking, to heck with learning to prepare and eat real food, I want a low carb Slim Fast plan" don't usually last. I understand that people are busy or some don't even have cooking facilities, like students in residence. Folks like that have little choice. But the more you rely on processed food, the less successful you're going to be. I think that applies to any nutrition plan.

While the LC convenience products are useful, people have to approach them with skepticism.

Total agreement.

I don't eat low carb products too often. I like the supplemental ones -- sauces, in moderation. I think natural stuff, whole foods, nuts, meats, veggies should comprise the bulk of your diet.

In the end, low fat didn't fail because of the products, though. It failed because it is a flawed concept. Low carbers may fail if they start having LC pizza and ice cream, but the premise of low carb is more viable than the premise of low fat, so the comparison isn't exactly accurate.

I think that stuff is good as a treat, or as a supplement. But it shouldn't comprise any significant percentage of your diet.

Bravo on an excellent post.

I agree whole heartedly with your original statement, that low carb works because you naturally feel less hungry, and therefore eat less. Before low carb, I naturally ate 3000 calories a day on average, which brought me to my incredible high weight. I attribute my intense hunger to the types of foods I was eating, because the *day* I started low carb I was amazed to find I did not want to eat more than normal portions. It wasn't because I don't like the food, either - I have always been a carnivore, I only ate the other junk because it was there not cause I fancied it.

IF people just start "cutting the carbs" back a little but eating the same amount of calories - that is using the faux low carb stuff to replace the real high carb junk, they will be quite disappointed. However if you follow the atkins plan correctly, you won't be doing this. Atkins SPECIFICALLY states: eat only until you are satiated. He does not give a liscence to eat specifically for pleasure, meaning once you are full if you are still eating just for taste/fun/boredom you are not doing atkins properly. Furthermore, if doing the atkins plan correctly, you should be satiated with a normal amount of food.

I do not see low carb going the way of low fat, because low fat was NOT self limiting like low carb food is. On low fat, you could easily inhale a box of snackwells and still be looking for more food... on low carb, try to inhale that same box of low carb/high fat cookies and you will soon find yourself uncomfortably full after a few of them. In other words, it is possible to over eat and gain weight on low carb, but you would have to really make an effort to do it. I mean, you would have to be *totally* ignoring natural hunger/satiety signals and just be eating for gluttony.

I think this fear of low carb being abused like low fat comes from the very incorrect misconception that all obese people became obese because they are disgusting gluttons who gorged despite fullness. In reality most obese people simply made poor food choices whether due to poverty, poor education about nutrition/misinfluence, or what have you. We simply choose foods with very low satiety values that mess up your metabolism big time, and because of this we were rarely full. We ate far too many calories not because we were eating beyond our hunger, but because our hunger had known no bounds.

Since low carb addresses and rectifies the problem of unnaturally high hunger, I am not afraid people will gain weight with low carb. I am afraid people might not lose weight using the junk food (that is easily acomplished if one eats until they are very full all the time), but I think it would be hard to *gain* weight and *become* more obese on low carb (even a half *ssed version), whereas it was only all too easy to become obese on low fat.

I think it's a good point that you will not reap any of the benefits with as much success if you do not follow the "whole foods, not processed foods," philosophy that was the heart of Dr. Atkins's concept.
For several years I thought I'd "gotten it" when I was eating food pyramid and exercising madly, and had my weight under control. It worked so much better than my binge/starve cycle, for instance!
A severe illness that cut off my exercise showed me the shortcomings of this approach...without exercise, my food pyramid was slowly crushing me!
And I found it harder and harder to keep staying away from fatty foods...they tasted so darn good...and I was so darn hungry...that Dr. Atkins came along in good time and rescued me.
For heaven's sake, there are people blaming fast food places for their overweight! We find this ridiculous, but some people will not be sensible as long as there is something else to blame.
So as long as low carb products come down the pipeline, there are people who will eat those instead of their usual junk, and I think they will be somewhat better off with more protein and less carbs.
Whole foods, not processed foods, is a philosophy that still applies.

Whether I was on Weight Watchers or Atkins I found one simple truth: the more complicated or processed the product is the less likely I am to lose weight.

I like using a few of the low-carb products, but overall, these processed foods just cause me to stall or gain. My body seems to want (demand) simpler foods.

As long as we are looking for an easy way out of our weight problems, we will be vulnerable to these marketing efforts. KISS (keep it simple stupid) is what works for me . Orchid

Excellent post and I do agree with your point.

I have thus far steered well clear of replacements. Heck I love bread and pasta, especially the stuff I make from scratch myself. The substitution is a)inferior in taste and b) teaching me zippo about staying away from the very foods that got me overweight to begin with.

I'm not a big sugar and chocolate lover but I am imagine for those who are, the same holds true for all the candies, bars and shakes available.

However, if I were on the verge of cheating I'd rather grab for a lo carb substitute anyday before the real thing. Fortunately though, so far for me a few cheese cubes or a slice of salami have helped cravings.

Finally, these products are outrageously expensive. Iy's near daylight robbery what they have the gall to charge but they have plenty of folks willing to pay. Not me though,,,

I agree with your assessement and I have worried about exactly the same thing as you.


One thing I would like to add, a different way of looking at things if you will. We have focused a great deal on carbs as being the culprit of the obesity epidemic. Often I find myself wondering if it's not so much the carbs themselves as the fact processed food has taken over the market in the past 30 years. People spend a larger and larger percentage of their food budget outside the home. Even WHEN home they often bring home take-out and junk food. All these foods are chock-full of additives: Processed and refined carbs, Hydrogenated fats, MGS, preservatives, chemical additives of all sort. We have been putting aside natural foods in favor of this stuff in greater and greater proportions. We simply aren't feeding our bodies the way it needs to be fed. Is it any wonder we are unhealthy and fat. All the healthy natural food in our diets has been displaced by nutrient-poor replacements that are either poured out of a box or taken home from the restaurant

It doesn't help that the big food corporations heavily advertises their processed junk. It carries their largest profit margin. No one advertises meat and veggies. Along with their junk they also promote the idea of snacking. Snacking is something that is so pervasive in North America, no one even questions it anymore. When you get a snack attack, you feed it --- usually with junk food -- an idea that was encouraged and maybe even created by the junk food pushers of the world. What's wrong with just downing a big glass of water in lieu of a snickers. Or simply, God forbid, ignoring the mild hunger pang and waiting until the next meal. I think a lot of people are simply scared of being even a little bit hungry.

I think also there is something about processed food that doesn't satisfy you. I don't know if that's because your body somehow recognizes that it hasn't been fed properly. Or maybe it's simply the flavor and quality that is lacking. When I eat a McDonald meal for example, I find that it gives me a slightly queasy feeling. I find myself, in those instances, wanting to eat again. The meal simply left me unfufilled, even though my stomach is full. I get that feeling when I eat something that is truly of mediocre quality. Most big chain fast food restaurants leave me with that feeling. I am lucky in that I live in Montreal. There is never a reason to eat in any big chain with all the excellent and cheap restaurants that are available. I know that not everyone is this lucky.

Well this turned out to be much less focused than I wanted, but I guess you can call this my 2 cents worth.

Klodomir...I agree with you to a point. The indiscriminate use of low carb products, basing your entire menu on them, would be a huge mistake (and one that I sadly see people doing even here); the same mistake that many people made with low fat products eating them indiscriminately simply because they were labeled "light" or "low fat". The majority of your daily intake should be coming from foods as close to their natural state as possible.
However...using a low carb product here and there (such as a low carb sauce, bread or other similar product) can be helpful and give more variety to an otherwise healthy low carb plan. Let's not forget about those who are on maintainence or pre-maintainence as well where whole grains would be permitted in the form of whole wheat pasta or whole grain bread.
For example, I use a bread that has 8 grams total carb per slice with 5 grams of fiber per slice giving it a net carb count of 3 grams per slice. It has no additives, preservatives or hydrogenated fats. It's made largely from unprocessed wheat bran and flax seeds and contains a healthy serving of Omega 3 per slice. Is that frankenfood? I don't believe it is. Yes, it's "processed", but then again, cooking meat is a form of processing. No, it doesn't taste like Wonder Bread (thank God...I hated that stuff), but I find the taste pleasing in its own right. Come to think of it, frozen veggies could qualify as "processed"; someone had to pick them, clean them, cut them up, freeze them and then package them for sale.
OTOH, we have low carb protein bars and other foods with ingredients that I can barely pronounce, let alone recognize what they are and whether they are good or bad for me that are highly processed and far removed from their original form. That's my definition of "frankenfood".
My point here is that just because a food could be considered "processed" doesn't make it evil incarnate. As I've always advocated, read labels and choose those low carb products that you want to incorporate into your plan wisely. Avoid completely those with known unhealthy ingredients such as high fructose corn syrup and hydrogenated fats. Keep the majority of your food as unprocessed and natural as possible (ie don't live on low carb protein bars and shakes...yuck!). Do some research on what all those ingredients that you don't recognize on the label are and the potential effect they could have on your health when deciding whether or not you actually want them in your body.
Last, but not least, don't make the mistake of replacing healthy natural foods such as unprocessed meats, fresh or frozen vegetables etc...with low carb convenience food. As a treat once in a while or when you find yourself short of time or choices...fine...not several times a day.

You have sooooo hit the nail on the head. I have totally steered clear of the LC products. I work with a girl that has tried almost every single LC bread available and critiques them all. She asks if I want to try it or if I would like her to pick me up a loaf at the day old bakery. I tell her no thanks, when I'm ready for bread I will choose a naturall high fiber bread more and likely Ezekiel bread before I will eat the LC bread. She also buys the pastas, candies sauce etc. She has been LC'ing for almost a year and maybe lost 10 lbs (has about 80 to lose) and she's about ready to give up because it's not working and she doesn't feel good all the time. I want to tell her to quit eating all the LC crap but I don't want to overstep my bounds.

I do keep a few LC chocolate bars and ice cream bars in the outside freezer. Between DH and I I think we have only eaten 2 or 3 in the last month. I save them mainly for TOM and like others have said, I would rather have that than a regular candy bar.

As for the LC pizza, I might try it someday. When I do have it, it would be considered a treat for a special day like my birthday or something.

I too feel that people are going to eat all this LC crap, not lose weight and blame Atkins.

BTW, I looked at the Carb Solutions Ragu Marinara sauce and it has 5 carbs. Price $3.69. Then I just checked the regular marinara's and Hunts sells one for $1.25 sometimes on sale for $0.99 and it also has 5 carbs. So if you search, you can find things without the price.

On my way to work today I was disgusted with myself for weighing myself everyday and thought, "remember when you went to Weight Watchers and you weighed in once a week and talked to WW counselors about problems, success's etc. Well, why don't they open up some Atkins Centers. That way when people want to join, or start this WOE, they get help from trained Atkins counselors that can help them out and let them know that the LC products could be hindering their WL, or health goals. There is money to made there I tell ya!

Wee

I think you should tell this girl what you think. She probably doesn't realize that all the LC stuff is sabotaging her diet. Ultimately she might give it up and say that "Atkins doesn't work". Either way, she might appreciate the advice. I know I would.

Frankly, no. I disagree.

The low carb products coming out don't have the same kind of insulin producing effect on my body and so I don't get the spikes and valleys I did before. So I have no problem not over-eating them. But they provide me with some nice variety.

I think the low-carb substitutes are going to help a lot of people, especially those who aren't talented cooks, with the monotony of eating low-carb.

Personally, I'm standing on the side-lines cheering everyone on and whatever works for them. For myself, I enjoy the low-carb products and intend to use them. If I find myself over-indulging, well... that will probably be a product I won't take home any longer.

IMHO there's a BIG difference between the low-fat products, like Snackwells, and the low-carb stuff. One I couldn't control myself on, the other I can.

But fortunately, I'm a pretty good cook and I'm actually managing to make a lot of my own low-carb substitutes. And they're made with very healthy ingredients.

Thanks for all your great replies so far. I can tell that you have all thought about this a lot, and I'm sure you are very well equipped to reach your goal.

Just a few points in response to some of the issues you raised:

- I agree that low-carb condiments etc. could be useful if used in moderation. That's why I specifically used the pizza as an example. I still believe that a big low-carb pizza would be worse for you than a single slice of real pizza used as a treat once in a blue moon. Also, for instance a single piece of 70% pure chocolate is infinitely more satisfying than many replacements you can find if you've got that sort of craving. So do you eat that one piece of chocolate and enjoy the full, intense taste... or do you go for a bag/bar of some replacement with an igredient list as long as your arm?

- If it's possible to stay at the same weight while doing Atkins, then surely it's also possible to gain weight - that's just a matter of margins. But most likely, what will happen is that if you don't lose weight, you get disillusioned and give up - and then you gain more weight.

- I think many of us (and I've been guilty of this too) do tend to eat beyond fullness sometimes, regardless of which diet we're on. Just ask the bingers. That's a psychological issue, not just a physical one.

- I may be wrong on this, but isn't the Atkins approach to fat that it is not harmful in a low-carb diet, but they're not disputing that it can be harmful in a high-carb diet? In that case, people are not better off with low-carb junk food than the regular stuff if they're not really low-carbing, but just trying to make a high-carb or "half-*ssed low-carb" diet less bad.

- Angeline, great post! I completely agree with you.

- Lisa, I also agree with you, and please note that I said "highly processed". Of course just about everything we eat is processed, but there are varying degrees, and I'm talking about the sort of stuff you mention at the end of your post.

- WeeOne: you should definitely try to educate your colleague. I'm sure you can find a way of doing it without hurting her feelings. Maybe you can find an article on this issue on the web (I'm sure we're not the first to have thought of this), or you can also go with the old "studies show" approach. "I just heard that low-carbers who don't use many replacements but make most of their food from scratch lose up to 50% more weight per month than people who don't. That's really made me think, and I will try to use less replacements from now on."

- Finally (and I know this is not a popular opinion here), low-fat/hi-carb diets do work for many, many people, especially if you look outside the US. But by that I mean food as close to its natual state as possible. Look at most of Asia, for instance, they are slim people who eat lots of rice and veggies, but use meat more or less as a condiment. Obviously they're doing something right. So that sort of diet is not doomed to fail, but I think it's a matter of personality what works for you. We - as a rule - have not been brought up with veggies as the main part of our diets, so we find it hard to eat enough of them to fill us up, but many people in the world can easily stay satiated on that sort of diet. And they don't have the blood sugar problems that we do.

I've been reading this thread with interest because I have been having the same thoughts about this. This is the second time I've tried Aitkin's, the first time was over years ago and doomed to fail. Ok I lost 8 kilos but spent the whole of induction desperate for carby foods and as soon as I got off it got into the lc substitutes, the sugarfree chocolate, tried the Aitkin's bars. Big time stall and I fell off the wagon. This time I feel different, I don't have the urge to get into the substitutes. I'm not saying that I'll never indulge in them, but hope to make it an infrequent indulgance not an everyday one.

My weight problems mostly stem from eating the wrong things, it also came from low self-esteem too. I have always been told I was fat because I was being compared to my elder sister, I was the "fat one" so I grew up believing no matter what I did I would always be fat. Looking back I was actually normal size for my age, my sister was very small for hers (she was still buying from the children's dept into her 20's, she is 4'10). I did have trouble on low-fat diets and when a Dr told me I needed to lose weight I asked him how. He said "Eat less". I was trying to live on less than 900 cals at the time and nothing was happening.

I'm pretty sure I benefited from not using any of those products. They are not available here in Germany and I stick to whole, real food.

Alina