Wed, Dec-03-03, 12:06
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Registered Member
Posts: 2,889
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Plan: Atkins
Stats: 280/203/200
BF:
Progress: 96%
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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Quote:
Ok, you and you alone brought that comparison up, so this rhetorical question really carries no weight in this argument.
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Sure it does - what they suggested was that unconditional love somehow is an excuse to ignore a loved one's desires. My point is that their love is actually conditional after all, and so they ought to be open to the reasonable counter-conditions.
Still don't buy it? Here is a further list of The Conditions of Unconditional Love. Take your pick - if NONE of these conditions exists in your relationship, then yours may be a true unconditional love.
(Adapted from the book "Against Love", by Laura Kipnis. Any errors are likely my typos - there is no link because I typed them in myself.)
You can't leave the house without saying where you're going. You can't not say what time you will return. You can't stay out past midnight, or 11, or 10, or dinnertime, or not come right home after work. You can't go out when the other person feels like staying home. You can't go to parties alone. You can't go out just to go out, because you can't not be considerate of the other person's worries about where you are, or their natural insecurities that you're not where you should be, or about where you should be instead. You can't make plans without consulting the other person, particularly not evenings and weekends, or make decisions about leisure time usage without a consultation.
You can't be a slob. You can't do less than 50 percent around the house, even if the other person wants to do 100 percent to 200 percent more housecleaning than you find necessary or even reasonable. You can't leave your (pick one) books, tissues, shoes, makeup, mail, underwear, work, sewing stuff, or pornography lying around the house. You can't smoke, or you can't smoke in the house, or you can't leave cigarettes in cups. You can't amass more knickknacks than the other person finds tolerable - likewise sports paraphernalia, Fiestaware, or Daffy Duck collectibles.
You can't leave the dishes for later, wash the dishes badly, not use soap, drink straight from the container, make crumbs without wiping them up (now, not later), or load the dishwasher according to the method that seems most sensible to you. You can't use dishes directly out of the dishwasher without unloading the whole thing. You can't accumulate things that you think you might use someday if the other person thinks you won't. You can't throw wet clothes in the laundry hamper. You can't have a comfortable desk, because it doesn't fit the decor. You can't not notice whether the house is neat or messy. You can't not share responsibility for domestic decisions the other person has made that you've gone along with to be nice but don't really care about. You can't hire a house cleaner, because your mate is a socialist and can't live with the idea.
You can't leave the bathroom door open; it's offensive. You can't leave the bathroom door closed; they need to get in. You can't enter without knocking. You can't leave the toilet seat up. You can't read on the john without commentary. You can't leave bloody things in the bathroom wastebasket. You can't leave female hygiene products out. You can't wash your dirty hands in the kitchen sink. You have to load the toilet paper "over" instead of "under". You're not allowed to pay no attention to what you'd simply rather ignore: your own nose hair, underarm hair, or toenails. You can't not make the bed. You can't not express appreciation when the other person makes the bed, even if you don't care. You can't sleep apart, you can't go to bed at different times, you can't fall asleep on the couch without getting woken up to go to bed. You can't eat in bed. You can't get out of bed right away after sex. You can't have insomnia without being grilled about what's really bothering you. You can't turn the air conditioner up as far as you want. You can't sleep late if the other person wants to get up early. Or you can't sleep late because it is a sign of moral turpitude.
You can't watch soap operas without getting made fun of. You can't watch infomercials, or the pregame show, or Martha Stewart, or shows in which men are humiliated in front of women or are made to play the buffoon. You can't watch porn. You can't leave CNN on as background. You can't psychologically withdraw into sports even if it's your only mode of anxiety release. You can't listen to Bob Dylan or other excesses of your youth. You can't go out to play pinball; it's regressive. You can't smoke pot. You can't drink during the day, even on weekends. You can't take naps when the other person is home because the mate feels leisure time should be shared. You can't work when you are supposed to be relaxing. You can't spend too much time on the computer. And stay out of those chat rooms! You can't have email flirtations, even if innocent. You can't play computer solitaire because the clicking drives the other person crazy. You can't talk on the phone when they're home working. You can't talk on the phone when they're in the room without them commenting on the conversation, or trying to talk to you at the same time. Your best friend can't call you after 10. You can't read without them starting to talk, and you're not allowed to read when they are talking to you. You can't not pay attention to their presence.
You can't be impulsive, self-absorbed, or distracted. You can't take risks, unless they're agreed-upon risks. You can't just quit your job in a huff. You can't make unilateral career decisions, or change jobs without extensive discussion and negotiation. You can't have your own bank account. You can't make major purchases alone, or spend money on things the other person considers excesses; you can't blow your money because you are in a really bad mood, and you can't be in a bad mood without being required to explain it. You can't have secrets - about money or anything else.
You can't eat what you want. You can't skip meals. You can't eat alone. You can't break your diet. You can't eat butter if they're monitoring your cholesterol. You can't cook cauliflower even if you don't expect the other person to eat it. You can't use enough salt to give the food some flavor without it being seen as a criticism of their cooking. You can't refuse to share your entree when dining out, or order what you want without negotiations far surpassing the Oslo Accords. You can't blow your nose at the table. You can't read the newspaper at meals. You can't eat things that give you gas. You can't make jokes about gas.
You can't drink without the other person counting your drinks. You can't bum cigarettes because it embarrasses your mate, even though you explain about the unspoken fraternity between smokers. You can't not "fit in". You must not dance because you're a terrible dancer (according to your mate; you happen to disagree). You can't leave a place before they're ready to go. You can't be late, even if you prefer being late. You can't dawdle. You can't lose track of time, especially when engaged in something without your mate, like you email. You can't forget things and then go back for them once the door is closed. You can't drive too fast, or faster than your mate defines as fast. You can't tailgate; you can't honk. You may not criticize the other person's driving, signaling, or lane-changing habits. You can't listen to talk radio in the car. You can't get angry when driving, or swear at other drivers.
You can't say the wrong thing, even in situations where there's no right thing to say. You can't use the "wrong tone of voice," and you can't deny the wrong-tone-of-voice accusation when it's made. You can't repeat yourself; you can't be overly self-dramatic; you can't know things the other person doesn't know, or appear to parade your knowledge. You can't overly celebrate your own accomplishments, particularly if the mate is less successful. You can't ask for help and then criticize the mode of help, or reject it. You can't not produce reassurances when asked for, or more frequently, when they're not asked for yet expected. You can't begin a sentence with "You always...". You can't begin a sentence with "I never...". You can't be simplistic, even when things are simple. You are not permitted to employ the Socratic Method in an argument. You can't say what you think about the mate's family. You also can't compare the mate to any of their family members, especially not the same-sex parent. You can't be less concerned with the other persons vulnerability than with expressing your opinions. You can't express inappropriate irony about something the other person takes seriously. Or appropriate anger at something the other person takes casually. You can't call a handyman to fix something if they consider themselves "handy". You can't not be supportive, even when the mate does something insupportable. You can't analyze the cinematography in a movie that they were emotional about. You can't not participate in the mini-dramas about other people's incompetence, or rudeness, or existence. You can't make a joke that the other person could potentially construe as unconsciously aimed at them. You can't talk about religion, politics, Germany, Israel, the class struggle. You can't tell Polish jokes. You can't make puns or tell dirty jokes or relate overly lengthy anecdotes. You can't make jokes about bald spots, ear shape, fat, or any other sensitivity, even if you didn't know until that moment that it was an area of sensitivity. You can't talk about your crush on your shrink. You can't talk about past relationships. Or you can't NOT talk about past relationships, and can't refuse to reveal all the long-forgotten details when asked. You can't refuse to talk about what you talked about in therapy. But you can't "overanalyze" either, or import psychological terminology into your relationship. You can't not "communicate your feelings". Except when those feelings are critical, which they should not be.
Thus is love obtained.
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