Late turkey night musings....

One of the things I have had struck home to me is that the difference between self-destructive behaviors and the way those of us who commit them are treated is the difference between being something and doing something.

Let me explain that. Smoking kills 400,000 people a year in the U.S. alone. Obesity death estimates vary (I heard 300,000 on television the other night), but it contributes to a host of ilnesses that kill or reduce quality of life, from cancer to diabetes. We all understand the stakes in the battle we're fighting.

However, it's arguable as to whether our self destructive behavior is any more costly than a self destructive behavior like smoking. I'm sure it's comparable, to be honest.

But the difference in the way a smoker is treated in the job market and the way an obese person is treated has to be huge.

It could be argued that smart employers should hire the thin person, given the choice between relative equals. After all, that thin guy might develop a heart condition, but the odds are greater that the fat guy will be sick more often, die younger, cost the company plan more health insurance dollars, drive premiums up, and be less attractive when you bring outsiders into the company. Of course, many of these arguments can be made against smokers or heavy drinkers or drug users.

The big difference? At a glance a smoker can't be identified as a smoker. Thus it's something he does. He smokes. A fat person is defined first and foremost by that. It's not something he does, it's something he is.

The smart employer, not able to see a smoker as a smoker takes a pass on the obese applicant and rolls the dice.

I don't want to validate that, but there are certain studies that tend to: for instance, a Rand Study on Obesity states "Obese individuals spend more on both services and medication than daily smokers and heavy drinkers. For example, obese individuals spend approximately 36 percent more than the general baseline population on health services, compared with a 21 percent increase for daily smokers and a 14 percent increase for heavy drinkers. Obese individuals spend 77 percent more on medications. Only aging has a greater effect--and only on expenditures for medications."

(Click here to see the Rand Study abstract)

A big ol' wakeup call for all of us. We can't expect an entirely fair shake in this world that finds all kinds of reasons to discriminate against people based on religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc. - but we can go out there armed with the grim, honest truth.

I've known for a long time that my skill set and abilities make me marketable, and that my weight reduces my marketability, health, and potential.

Why it took me 40 years to do something about it is a mystery I'll never quite understand.

--Scott

Truthfully, this is the primary reason I'm improving my health. At this time in life, sure it's easy to say I'm doing this "for my health," but it wouldn't be completely honest. Lately, I've realized that I'm doing this for one major reason - to become an equal in the job market. Being unemployed and underemployed for the last year has taught me an incredible lesson, and I wouldn't be honest if I said that in some part of my brain I didn't appreciate it. I am 24 years old and I learned an incredible lesson in credit, living wages, savings, etc...

Most importantly, I learned how petty and insignificant most people are. I've learned firsthand just how deeply resentful this society is towards obese and overweight people. I've also learned that there is no such thing as company loyalty because they will backstab you first chance they get if it means improving their earnings by $0.01.

Pessimistic? Yes. Realistic? Definitely.

Statistics show that thinner, taller, more attractive, well-groomed, and stronger people get more job offers, respect, etc... That's what I'm shooting for.

Egocentric? Yes. Necessary? Definitely.

as I have observed many times here. . .I am a blessed to be a pessimist (life is always full of happy suprises when you think it's going to totally suck) and in my life as a pessimist I have learned a few valuable things. . .we can strive for the ideal world. . .BUT we have to live in the real world. And that one is judged on appearance first. . .but I am also a child (not really a kid anymore) of an ex model (local stuff. . .just you get the persona) and I got to see first hand someone who thinks that all she has to offer the world is her looks. . .this is a tough thing to believe as my mom get to be 60+. . .she's a hurtin' unit. I always look at it like. . .I have the option to be devestatingly gorgeous. . .I just did not exercise my option. .. til now. . .hehehe redawn

I agree, and I would also add that employers tend to look past obese applicants, because they view obesity as a problem caused by sloth and lack of willpower. Naturally, a slothful person with no willpower is not the stort of man or woman you want working for you.

Yep. We have a pleathora of real and imagined strikes against us in the employment market. Another reason to alter our way of life. It isn't fair, but no one should be deluded into thinking that it will ever change.

In my mental ticklist of the reasons I'm doing this, economics ranks highly. I want to earn more and be more marketable. I want to buy normal sized clothes. I want to avoid costly illness and complications due to my size. I want to remove any disadvantages my size gives me when it comes to jobs. I want to be able to crawl into my own attic and do work without hiring someone. I want lower life insurance premiums. Etc.

Economics is a big deal for a fat person, have no doubt.

Several months ago I interviewed a woman who probably weighed about 300 pounds for a position in my office. She dressed incorrectly for the interview (the clothing norm in my office is professional and boring, and she wore bright colors which made her stand out) and she also wore too much make-up. I had a negative reaction when I saw her and I have been racking my brain ever since to figure out if it was the weight or the clothing or the make-up or some combination of those things that made me react negatively. I hate to think that I would instinctively judge a job candidate negatively because of her weight. At least I was aware of what I was doing and I bent over backwards to give her a fair interview and evaluate her on her merits, not her looks and clothing. However, I have a feeling that some of my colleagues would not be nearly so self-aware and probably just dismissed her as a potential employee because of the way she looked.

From a personal perspective, I know that I have often been harshly judged in the work place because of my weight. A few years ago, a client told my boss that she couldn't stand to look at me. That certainly hurt to hear and I am sure it didn't do me any good career-wise. The one advantage I see to being fat is that I am sure I have deserved every promotion I have ever gotten. I have seen very attractive people get promoted before they were ready because just by the way they looked and acted they were able to make people think they were more competent than they were. Often, once they get promoted, they get in trouble because they are not ready to perform well in their new position. That has never happened to me and I doubt it happens to very many fat people!

I've been lucky to have had the same job for the past 18 years. When I was hired originally, I was very thin and had just finished my professional degree. Over the years as I've packed on the pounds, my employer has never treated me poorly, but I know that some clients and other people I have to deal with in my job are not pleased with my appearance. I even had one client give me a "compliment" by directly telling me that he didn't think when he first met me that I could handle the job, but was shocked at what great work I could do. Since my boss is getting up there in years, I am getting concerned that the firm may dissolve once he retires and I will be thrown into the job market after so many years at the same job. That has been one of the reasons I've decided that I can no longer be fat because I realize how tough it would be for me to be hired at my current weight and age (mid-40's). It's sad, but that is the reality we face as the world continues to favor thin and beautiful. One of the other reasons I've been motivated to stick with this WOE is for my DD who told me that one of her friends at school asked her why her mommy was so fat. That hurt me to hear that, not just for me, but for the possibility that my daughter might be adversely affected by negative attitudes by others about weight. Both of these things are pretty big motivations for sticking it out on the WOE for me because while I cannot change the world, I can change what I eat.

As Liz suggested in her post above, very attractive people may be hired or promoted into jobs they can't handle because they are so easy on the eyes, or because they are somehow seen as responsible for their attractiveness (just as the obese are). that doesn't negate anything you all have said about losing weight as a career enhancing goal.

It is just a little check mark on a form, and I personally know at least one person that lied, but smokers at my company get charged more for their health insurance. I don't know how much it is, and some smokers don't tell the truth anyhow, but there is a penalty.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Adkins4myW

Quote: A big ol' wakeup call for all of us. We can't expect an entirely fair shake in this world that finds all kinds of reasons to discriminate against people based on religion, gender, race, sexual preference, etc. - but we can go out there armed with the grim, honest truth.

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We can't change what others think, but we can do our best in whatever it is we do. I stand to be promoted soon when my supervisor leaves, not because of how I look but because I am loyal, honest, reliable and I work smart not hard, even though some say I am the hardest worker they know.

I learned long ago that first impressions are important but we also cannot judge a book by its cover. Ralationships are also important because if someone gets to know us, they may realize we are not what the stereotypes say we are.

Yes, I would like to take advantage of the increased economic opportunities that may come about because my appearance will be better once I lose weight. Believe me, I will savor and appreciate every bit of the success that will be mine.

Just as an FYI - a lot of job ads have, for years, specifically requested non-smokers. So, I don't think smokers are accepted any more readily than fat people in many places.

I've been there/done that with job searches and have spent 18 months unemployed even though I applied for lots of jobs and had plenty of experience. Unfortunately, bigotry is a fact of life and WE are the ones who suffer for their ignorance. Only 2 states have laws that outlaw discrimination based on body size.

Well, I like everyone else have had lots of discrimination due to my size, as well as my age (I'm pretty young for my profession). I think that it's funny that there are only 2 states that say that you can't discriminate against people for thier size. That just doesn't seem right. Most of my friends, who are overweight, are the hardest working, brightest professionals that I know! But, that's just life aye? Something that we have to accept? I think we should make all the "skinnies" walk around in a fat suit for a month and see if that doesn't change the WHOLE WORLD!

I think it would DEFINITELY change things. I happened to turn on "Average Joe" the other night, even though I normally don't watch these reality dating shows, b/c I knew the woman was going to put on a fat suit to test the character of the men she had to choose from. To get used to being in the suit she went downtown and walked around. She asked several people for directions and they'd just walk right past her w/o even answering. She said that normally they'd stop and help her and try to engage her in conversation asking for her name or phone number, etc. It was a really humbling experience for her knowing that she was the same person on the inside and all that had changed was the 'package'.