The probl;em with a salt water purge is the sodium. I have problems keeping my sodium in the acceptable range as is with all the salt they add to food these days. I use a salt subs and still have a little over the recomended amount of sodium.

Jake, eat your veggies, not just spinich. I usuly have 10-20g of fiber just from food. I've found that cooking with psyllium husks can raise that to 30. It is also alot easier then trying to drink down the darn things when I do drink them I put them with a little soy milk.

25 - 35 grams of fiber per day is a MYTH, promulgated by the same "experts" who want us to believe we must have 6 - 12 servings of breads and cereals every day in order to get it.

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Fiber intake of 30g or more per day can interfere with absorption of important nutrients, in particular calcium, iron and magnesium. Especially bran fiber from grains .. these contain substances called phytates which are anti-nutrients. You might find Barry Groves' (author of Eat Fat, Get Thin) essay, The Bran Wagon to be illuminating. Also this article .. The Tail End of the Fiber Myth, from JunkScience.com.

IMO, when you're eating all kinds of refined starch carbs such as white bread, rice krispies, white rice, twinkies, cake etc etc etc ... you need 25g or more fiber to keep all that gluey sludge moving along. A hundred years ago, white bread was a folk remedy for diarrhea because of its well-known ability to plug you up.

Meats and fats leave little residue when properly digested. Vegetables, nuts, seeds and low-carb fruits provide plenty of fiber, although it's true your intake will be limited while eating very low carbs, such as Atkins Induction. A fiber supplement might be helpful, such as psyllium husks. Ground flax seeds are excellent too. Make sure you're consuming adequate fats & oils, and drinking lots of water; dehydration can lead to constipatioin no matter how much fiber you eat. If you're eating a carb-controlled diet of natural, minimally processed proteins and fats, along with plenty of leafy greens and other vegetables, then a fiber intake of 15g per day is quite adequate.


my 2.5¢


Doreen

I must say that it would be very nice indeed for the gastroenterology people to "be up on" lo-carbers problems and give CORRECT advice. It was the surgeon who told me 30 grams per day fiber AFTER being inside my unhappy colon. They KNEW I was on Atkins too. They wrote 30 grams fiber per day on my discharge papers from the hospital. This varying of basic data is a real problem.

You all know that I am fussy about particulars...and that I follow my induction "to the letter"...always...pysillium is NOT an alternative for me and I have gone past it...Flax seeds (ground) are great for me as far as taking them and Not wanting to hurl...in fact, I think they are tasty! It has not been long enough as yet to tell what my "results" will be, and if 2 TBSP per day is enough for me.

My concern with fiber is not simply being able to have regularity...although that would be NICE ...I am concerned about a healthy, functioning, colon. The limited veggie , no nuts or fruits, of induction, simply create a problem for those of us who wish to stay on induction longer then 14 days and not turn purple from lack of colonic activity.

I will continue to work on the balance "for me". I can tell you that 15 grams of fiber for "me" is not enough. My colon laughs at 15 grams

I need more.

Best to all;
Jake

Stop limiting your veggies so much. If you cut down on carbs form other sources such as dairy, treats, and a few other sources you can safely up your veggie intake and stay below the 20g of carbs a day. I've been trying to have veggies at every meal. I usually have 2-3 cups of salad veggies for lunch, then 1 cup of something like spinich or zucchini for breakfast, and for dinner broccoli, cauliflower, or squash. I have a really hard time getting near 20g of carbs per day because of all the fiber. I think the 3 cup rule is to keep carb count low, but that assumes carbs coming in from alot of other sources. When mixed with a protien source veggies won't have that much of an impact on blood sugar compared to other sources of carbs.

hi Jake,

Actually, your message is a good reminder that I should've stated in my rant above that it's directed at the Generic Low-Carber who's not under medical supervision as you are. Of course one should strive to follow drs' orders as much as possible.

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re - FLAX .. just so folks know, if you use Fitday to keep track .. there's 2 different entries for flax seeds, and one is lower fiber than the other, thus resulting in a higher net digestible carb count. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but the higher fiber (lower net carb) one jives with the calculations from the Canadian Flax Council website, so that's the one I go with. The entries are as follows:

Seeds, flax seed: 1 cup .. total carbs 53.09g, fiber 43.24g (9.85g net or ECC)

Flax seed: 1 cup .. total carbs 53.94g, fiber 24.51g (29.43g net or ECC)

Using the lower net carb value, ¼ cup flax seeds (= 4 Tbsp) would only contribute 2.46g net carbs to your daily menu, and would provide 10.8g fiber ... so you'd certainly be able to increase beyond 2 Tbsp per day if and when you feel that would be helpful.

LadyBelle is right .. if you eat more veggies, and cut back on the animal carbs (processed meats, shellfish, dairy, eggs), sweeteners etc (if you use those) and emphasized high-fiber veggies and flax, you could come up with 25 - 30g fiber daily without relying on pills or going over 20g net carbs per day.

California avocadoes are quite high in fiber, low in net carbs. Asparagus, spinach, chard, kale, mushrooms are all great carb and fiber bargains. If you can find it in your area, unsweetened soy milk is a good substitute for dairy cream to use on your flax cereal. West Soy and Natura unsw. soy milks are 4g total carbs, 3g fiber ... so only 1g net carbs per cup. These foods are all permitted on Induction (ok, the soy milk is an assumption, since Atkins products made with soy are permitted on Induction ).


hth,

Doreen

I get about 15g fiber per day, sometimes a bit less, but and I eat nothing except natural foods -- meats, eggs, little dairy, but lots of veggies, etc. My fat intake is about 65% per day, and I drink at least 3 liters of water per day, most days more. I eat more than 3 cups of green veggies per day. The psyllium husks I've been taking do nothing to move things along. The strange thing is that I'm losing weight fine -- where is the food going, cause it aint coming out the other end!?

Hmmm ... I'm not sure the reason why the intestinal "thing" isn't moving. I routinely eat 15g fiber per day, sometimes a bit more or less, and no problem. I don't use psyllium (allergic), sometimes have flax seed .. but not every day. In fact, if I go over 20 - 25g fiber for more than a couple days in a row, I'm in the bathroom rather more than I care to be

One thing, I know that fiber requires the action of bacteria in the large intestine in order to be most effective. I hate to suggest another pill, but you might find supplementing with acidolphilus-bifidus to be helpful (take on an empty stomach). Only needs to be taken temporarily, to help "repopulate" a depleted bacterial flora.

Just a thought


Doreen

You can also try using SteviaPlus Fiber. Look at http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?p=1206112

I reprinted what the package states, and improved colon health is one of the claims.

Try the wheat bran, as was suggested earlier. 3 tablespoons = 7gm carbs, 6 of which is fiber. Perhaps your problem is not with psyllium husks itself, but rather not having a blend of soluble fiber and insoluble fiber. Straight psyllium put a hurtin' on me, but mixing psyllium and wheat bran (which, by the way, doesn't taste all that great) works wonders.

Since I've cheated recently and went back on 20 carbs for the week, I went back to 1 tablespoon psyllium husks and 3 tablespoons of wheat bran twice a day, with good results. Perhaps you could try ground flax seed and wheat bran?

Thanks Doreen. I'll try Colonic Jake's flax seed concoction and see if that helps kick start the old bowls. If not, I might consider a trip to the doc. But I'll look into the acidolphilis-bifidus supplement... bacteria depletion could be what's happening, or at least contributing.