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  #1   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 07:21
Dave Bing Dave Bing is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 250/201/205 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Middle East
Default hostile article in this morning's paper

There are numerous ways to lose weight. However effective they may be, some are just not safe. A meat-based, low fiber diet like Atkins advocates with no fruit, or starchy vegetables, will almost double your risk of certain cancers, especially of meat-sensitive cancers, such as colon cancer. Atkins' plan works to cause weight loss much in the same manner as an insulin dependent diabetic.

Dangers of the Atkins Diet
by Joel Fuhrman, M.D.

Robert Atkins' books, as well as other authors, advocating high-protein weight loss plans, recommend diets for health and weight loss with significantly more animal protein than is usually consumed by the average American. Americans already eat almost 50% of calories from animal products, and as a result of such nutritional extravagance we have seen a tragic skyrocketing in cancer rates and heart disease rates in the last 50 years.

In spite of the hokum and hoopla, as a result of hundreds of scientific studies, the link between animal protein and various cancers is as solid now as the link between smoking and lung cancer. This is not to say that animal foods are the sole cause of cancer, but clearly it is the increased consumption of animal product and the decreased consumption of fresh produce that has the most powerful effect on cancer risks.

These recent books aren't new, just a rehash of the same diets advocated years ago. They are just as dangerous today. Unfortunately, the lay public has always been a sucker for a quick, painless way to achieve results so they can continue their love affair with rich and dangerous foods.

Dr. Atkins' book actually recommends such foods as fried pork rinds and bacon cheeseburgers. It states on the first page: "Imagine losing weight with a diet that lets you have bacon and eggs for breakfast, heavy cream in your coffee, plenty of meat and even salad with dressing for lunch and dinner!"

No wonder Dr. Atkins calls it a "diet revolution."

There are numerous ways to lose weight. However effective they may be, some are just not safe. We certainly would not advocate smoking cigarettes or snorting cocaine for weight loss (even though they may be effective) as both these methods sharply increase one's risk of a heart attack. We should not advocate weight loss via drugs, or high-protein, high-fat diets for the same reason; you may pay a substantial price: your life!

A meat-based, low fiber diet like Atkins advocates with no fruit, or starchy vegetables, will almost double your risk of certain cancers, especially of meat-sensitive cancers, such as colon cancer.

Stomach and esophageal cancer, for example are linked to populations that do not consume sufficient fruit. Atkins' menus average 60-75% of calories from fat and contain no fruit.

One reason he gets support is that the diet does work to cause weight loss and the conventional diet is so unhealthy and fattening that people need to do something that works. Being overweight is such a health risk that there are some real health benefits one receives from losing weight, even if the mode of weight loss places the person at increased risk. Losing weight, even by a high-protein, high-fat, low-fiber diet will lower triglycerides, decrease insulin resistance, and lower blood pressure, for example.

Since these high-protein diets strongly forbid refined carbohydrates and junk food and the nutritionally depleted white pasta and bread most Americans live on, and recommend the dieter consume hundreds of dollars of nutritional supplements each month; they may offer more micronutrient density than the diet the person was on prior. However, no matter how much supplements and psyllium fiber are prescribed, it is simply impossible to make up for the destructive effects of so much animal products and so little fibrous produce.

It is indeed difficult to believe so many people can't see through this insanity, and actually take everything we know about cancer prevention and longevity, and do the exact opposite. The diet is completely opposed to our primate heritage, with almost no fiber, utilizing the precise foods labeled as the primary causes of cancer and heart attacks. The foods that have been shown to prevent cancer such as, fruit, yellow and orange vegetables and beans have been specifically excluded from the diet. Then they are told to take supplements to make up for the deficiencies. Does this make sense to you?

So how does this diet work? How can you eat all the fat and grease that you want and still lose weight?

When the body can't find enough carbohydrates to properly run its machinery, it produces ketones, an emergency fuel that can be utilized in times of crisis or fasting.

Built into our genetic code is the ability to survive periods of time without food, such as periods of food scarcity, or natural disasters. Since we are primates, designed by nature to survive on a plant-based diet, rich in carbohydrates; when our cells realize they are not receiving sufficient fuel (glucose), the body receives messages to dip into its fat reserves to produce ketones as an emergency fuel in such rough times. Ketones rise in our bloodstream and the body begins to lose fat in spite of a large consumption of high fat animal foods.

This plan works to cause weight loss much in the same manner as an insulin dependent diabetic. The high levels of sugar can't enter the cells without insulin, so the cell are still starving for glucose. Ketones then flood the bloodstream, and loss of body fat occurs.

One pays a substantial price from such a diet which generates a chronic ketosis. Besides the increased cancer risk, the kidneys are placed under increased stress and will age more rapidly. It can take many, many years for such damage to be detected by blood tests and by the time it is detected irreversible damage might have already occurred. The blood tests that monitor kidney function do not begin to increase until more than 80% of the kidneys have been destroyed.

Even in my private medical practice, I have already seen numerous diabetic patients who have permanently damaged their kidneys as a result of attempting weight loss and diabetic control with high-protein diets. One diabetic patient, John Lyle, lost weight after being a patient at The Atkins' Center, and his diabetes did improve, but his creatinine, a marker of kidney function went from 1.2 pre-Atkin's to 2.3 when he stopped one year later. This represents a loss of 95% of his kidney function in one year while on the Atkins' diet.

He was not informed at The Atkins' Center that a plant-based diet of natural foods would also cause fast, effortless and permanent weight loss and cure his diabetes without causing him serous health risks. John was angry he wasn't given such a choice.

It is the extra weight, the fat on the body, that causes the insulin resistance. As long as one successfully loses weight, carbohydrates are not a problem to the diabetic. Remember, losing weight healthfully is the key.
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  #2   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 08:08
Dave Bing Dave Bing is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 29
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 250/201/205 Male 6'1"
BF:
Progress: 109%
Location: Middle East
Default

It should be noted that Joel Fuhrman is pushing a diet book of his own, and is widely published advancing his own theories.

That said, the bit about kidney disease is a little scary.
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  #3   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 10:21
odinisgod's Avatar
odinisgod odinisgod is offline
New Member
Posts: 23
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 364/320/280
BF:
Progress: 52%
Location: Chicago
Exclamation Absolutely Ridiculous

That article reeks of prejudice against Atkins. Everything this guys said is conjecture. The only hard example this guys provides is one case of a diabetic whose kidney problems may or may not have developed from doing Atkins. I am not diabetic, why should I be worried about this example anyway. The only thing this MD (I'd like to know the clown college this guy went to) has accomplished in the above article is to prove his own ignorance.

Atkins is safe. Ketosis is safe. Ketosis does not change the pH of the blood and it does not harm healthy kidneys. Atkins dieters consume green vegetables. Personally, I eat more greens on this diet than I did before I started. It is a healthy lifestyle. This has been proven again and again. How many times have you heard the headline "Obese Man Dies from Doing Atkins"? Give me a break. It is the FDA food pyramid that is not safe. Consuming refined carbohydrates is dangerous. This is why there are so many overweight people in America. Fat is not to blame, it is sugar. When will people realize that you are not what you eat?

Low Carbers, don’t let articles like this sway you. Low Carbing goes against a lot of established theories about what is healthy. Expect controversy, educate yourself, and don’t believe everything you read in an article. Look for case studies, actual proof (there isn’t any against Atkins, that’s for sure).

I wish I could fast forward time fifty years. I am confident the history books will look at Atkins as a revolutionary, and quacks like the one that wrote the above article will be revealed as the ignoramuses they really are.
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  #4   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 11:23
Ryan44221's Avatar
Ryan44221 Ryan44221 is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 64
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 262/192/175
BF:
Progress: 80%
Location: Denver, CO
Default

You know whats funny...Is that no one can really provide a true health benefit of bleached enriched white flour or highly processed sugar....And that in essence is what we are prohibiting from our diets, Atkins folks eat healthier than 99% of americans...there is no way that someone that eats donuts for breakfast, mcdonalds for lunch, and pizza hut for dinner is healther than i am....articles like that make me mad....grrrr
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  #5   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 12:51
DWRolfe's Avatar
DWRolfe DWRolfe is offline
Posts: 6,588
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 468/371/275 Male 5' 10"
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Chicago, IL
Default I agree!

I had much the same reaction to this article! For my part, I've never felt better or as committed to a program (WOE). I analyse everything that I eat, I take suppliments that I know are good for me, my depression and feelings of hoplessness have lifted, and I happen to believe that positive thinking and the knowledge that I'm taking care of and loving myself for the first time in many years is also healthy.

This WOE is good for me. I truly believe this.

This wouldn't be the first time a person in the medical profession was totally wrong. That's why people get second opinions!
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  #6   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 14:00
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,415
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/190/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb

I'm curious as to the definition of high-protein? Neither Atkins nor Protein Power advocate the consumption of excessive protein, rather they ensure that a person gets ADEQUATE protein to prevent muscle wasting and the loss of lean body mass, which plant-based calorie-restricted programs WILL cause.

It is well known and documented that kidney disease is a common complication of diabetes, and results from chronic high and inadequately controlled sugar, not protein. The fact that protein begins to spill into the urine is a result, not a cause of the problem. The high sugar concentration damages the glomerular filtration system, so that larger molecules and particles begin to escape. Dr. Richard Bernstein, himself a Type 1 diabetic, reversed his own kidney disease and that of his patients, with tight blood sugar control and low-carb diet. His book, Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution explains this is in detail, as well the chapter on protein and kidney disease is posted on his website. You can read it here ... it's about halfway down the page.

Regarding the studies that linked meat to stomach and esophageal cancers ... well, we've reviewed those in our Research/Media forum .. check them out here and the second one here. Basically the "studies" (actually telephone interviews, often with next of kin, regardind dietary choices from decades previous) suggested that, in populations already at high risk for the particular cancers .. consuming excessive salty processed meats, hotdogs etc, and insufficient fiber from vegetables and fruits led to increased risk. The one study showed that increased consumption of fatty fish was protective, but this was not emphasized. I wonder why not??

I don't see anything new or particularly earth-shaking in this commentary. It's not an official study, just an editorial opinion, but which will no doubt sway many readers just by virtue of the letters M.D. that accompany the author's name.

Doreen
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  #7   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 14:06
doreen T's Avatar
doreen T doreen T is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 37,415
 
Plan: LC, GF
Stats: 241/190/140 Female 165 cm
BF:
Progress: 50%
Location: Eastern ON, Canada
Lightbulb

I forgot to add .... high FAT, ketogenic diets have been used safely and effectively since the 1920's to treat epilepsy in small children as young as one year of age. Such a diet is used when drugs and other modalities fail to bring satisfactory control of the seizures. Ketones have a calming effect on the brain tissue, and the results are remarkable. Check out our Studies webpage, from the orange menu bar near the top of the page. Wa'il has a great collection of articles on this subject.

The children often remain on the diet for years at a time (as long as the parents have control over their diet ... often treats are indulged in at school). Longterm studies show no impairment in development, intelligence or growth in these kids. Longterm side effects from anti-epileptic drugs aren't as pretty.

Doreen
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  #8   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 14:39
tamarian's Avatar
tamarian tamarian is offline
Forum Founder
Posts: 19,572
 
Plan: Atkins/PP/BFL
Stats: 400/223/200 Male 5 ft 11
BF:37%/17%/12%
Progress: 89%
Location: Ottawa, ON
Default Re: hostile article in this morning's paper

Quote:

One diabetic patient, John Lyle, lost weight after being a patient at The Atkins' Center, and his diabetes did improve, but his creatinine, a marker of kidney function went from 1.2 pre-Atkin's to 2.3 when he stopped one year later. This represents a loss of 95% of his kidney function in one year while on the Atkins' diet.

He was not informed at The Atkins' Center that a plant-based diet of natural foods would also cause fast, effortless and permanent weight loss and cure his diabetes without causing him serous health risks. John was angry he wasn't given such a choice.
I expect we will hear something from the Atkins Center in response to this piece of propaganda.

It's interesting rehtoric, patients at the Atkins Center are not given a choice? Can you sue them for not offering you the FDA-approved diet plan, or a "plant-based" diet that got you in trouble in the first palce....

Wa'il
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  #9   ^
Old Tue, Jan-29-02, 16:22
tecaddict tecaddict is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 40
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 272/190/165
BF:
Progress: 77%
Location: Philadelphia
Default

"Losing weight, even by a high-protein, high-fat, low-fiber diet will lower triglycerides, decrease insulin resistance, and lower blood pressure, for example. "

---Nope. Has no effect on Triglicerides. I do not believe this person is a MD. Its right in the damn elementary level textbook. Reducing carbs will is cited.

"One pays a substantial price from such a diet which generates a chronic ketosis. Besides the increased cancer risk, the kidneys are placed under increased stress and will age more rapidly. "

---Nice thesis. High glucose levels have been shown to also be effective.


"It can take many, many years for such damage to be detected by blood tests and by the time it is detected irreversible damage might have already occurred. The blood tests that monitor kidney function do not begin to increase until more than 80% of the kidneys have been destroyed."

---Where did you learn this? Do you really want to completly go against the medical establishment with this thesis? "Many, Many years"... do you mean.. many many many many many years? Please explain.

Even in my private medical practice, I have already seen numerous diabetic patients who have permanently damaged their kidneys as a result of attempting weight loss and diabetic control with high-protein diets.

---Report it... you'll be famous and rich. How many people have you killed in your practice?

He was not informed at The Atkins' Center that a plant-based diet of natural foods would also cause fast, effortless and permanent weight loss and cure his diabetes without causing him serous health risks. John was angry he wasn't given such a choice.

---Is John Mute? Why hasn't john been shown or thrown on the television telling his story? Does John really exist... or is this "literary freedom?" Your "John" friend (couldn't you make up a less common name?). was blind without tastebuds? He didn't realize what he was eating?

As long as one successfully loses weight, carbohydrates are not a problem to the diabetic.

---So diabedics don't need to test their glucose?

So hes against Ketosis... so he believes it is unhealthy to EVER lose weight.... the only way weight loss CAN be achieved is for a ketogenic state to occur (Other then liposuction). Most people enter it everyday. Maybe we are actually healthy gaining weight then.


This guy is not a M.D. If he is, the school he graduated from should be shutdown.
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  #10   ^
Old Wed, Jan-30-02, 09:28
smiley smiley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/149/135
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Ontario,Canada
Default in response to bad publicity about Atkins

Never in my life have I ever eaten as much good for me vegetables than I do now!! I was never a big meat fan,,,but now I realize not eating enough protien and good healthy vegetables got me into the blood sugar trouble in the first place!!!!!!!!!!

Usually before,,,I would eat bread,pasta,no vegetables,,and on top of that,,,I was never really satisfied... so more eating and it was literally a vicious circle.

This "Doctor" can't tell me that what I am doing now is more dangerous for me than that.

As I have said in previous posts I try to pick lean meats,,turkey and chicken bacon instead of regular.. no deserts except diet jello

Dr. Atkins himself states that if you have kidney problems you should not be on this diet. AND that everyone should have a medical check-up before they start.

I eat equal portions of meat to vegetables,,,I excersise daily and have never felt better!!!!!!!

The consumer needs to be informed about choices and apply those that work for them as long as they are not endangering their health.

Okay, now I feel better..Take care everyone

Smiley
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  #11   ^
Old Fri, Feb-01-02, 21:59
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

Hi Smiley,

I have the disadvantage of not seeing the original bad publicity you are writing about.

However, I wholeheartedly agreewith this statement:

Quote:
The consumer needs to be informed about choices and apply those that work for them as long as they are not endangering their health.


Good luck, and Happy Lowcarbing,

Andy
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  #12   ^
Old Tue, Feb-05-02, 20:44
smiley smiley is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 178
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 189/149/135
BF:
Progress: 74%
Location: Ontario,Canada
Default re" bad publicity"

Andy,

Read the article from Dave Bing in the Research/Media Watch forum.

Smiley
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  #13   ^
Old Wed, Feb-06-02, 13:37
IslandGirl's Avatar
IslandGirl IslandGirl is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,909
 
Plan: Atkins,PP - wgt in %
Stats: 100/96.8/69 Female 5'6.5"
BF:DWTK/DDare/JEnuf
Progress: 10%
Location: Vancouver Island, BC
Default

"hostile article in this morning's paper" is the subject line of a post from DaveBing (this makes the thread findable, Smiley) and I believe that's what THIS thread is in response to, Andy.

It's probably easier all around if you post a response to an article right in the same thread, using the Reply feature, Smiley.

Hope this helps.
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  #14   ^
Old Wed, Feb-06-02, 20:22
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

It is clear, from all the above, that the members here are erudite, intelligent and eloquent people, who shine out against the uninformed orthodoxy which permits the continued publication of ill-informed and irrational propoganda such as the article quoted.

And yet, I know from my own experiences in the UK just how hard it is to publish against the orthodoxy. Our point of view is seen as a kind of heresy, in which the medical establishment can expound its improbable and frankly laughable explanation for obesity, weight loss and all related issues, and anyone else with a different viewpoint is forbidden to publish it. We have here a doctrine of "You can publish any view you like, as long as it's the official one". Newspapers employ medical doctors to vet all articles on health or health-related issues, and any articles disputing or disproving the official position are refused, on medical advice, by the editors.

Quite how the medical profession came to have such a stranglehold on the press, and why they should so fear the truth coming out still baffles me. Maybe there is the political force of big agricultural business, or maybe the manufacturers of refined white flour and sugar are more influential than the truth, who knows? It just saddens me that thirty years after Atkins' first book was published, we still have to swallow such blatantly partisan and inaccurate press coverage of a subject which collectively we here know far more about than the authors of these influential articles do.

What is the possibility of countering with a low-carb magazine, I wonder?

Andy
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  #15   ^
Old Wed, Feb-06-02, 20:31
Andy Davies Andy Davies is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,212
 
Plan: My own (based on a compil
Stats: 333/260/224 Male 73 ins
BF:
Progress: 67%
Location: Hampshire, England
Default

Thanks, Smiley and Judi,

I have now found and responded to the thread in question.

And Smiley, your contribution still deserves to be added to the original thread, in the way that Judi suggests should have been done in the first place. You could copy and paste it, and then post it as the next reply.

Andy
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