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  #1   ^
Old Thu, Aug-07-03, 09:28
Edward_Hna Edward_Hna is offline
New Member
Posts: 17
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 217/140/130 Male 5 ' 4"
BF:18.8
Progress: 89%
Default What makes you build muscle mass?

I was wondering... I am on atkins and my carb limit is 20... Muscle is protein so eat more meat right? Or more carbs? I am not sure. Eating a tin of tuna before wight lifting; will it help as been a sorce of pure protein.. Or should i have a salad. I am no into the protein shake business as i find it too expensive. Would protein tablets help? How much protein is too much? I am not too sure of alot as you can see...
I hope you guys in here can give me a good idea of what to do. I am not too keen on the carb binging on a saturday sunda and monday. I have alot of fat as you can see in my profile. Hope to get some good advice. Thanks alot
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  #2   ^
Old Thu, Aug-07-03, 11:57
KC_Pike's Avatar
KC_Pike KC_Pike is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 210
 
Plan: TKD
Stats: 238/208/200 Male 6 feet
BF:16, 7.5, 4
Progress: 79%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward_Hna
I was wondering... I am on atkins and my carb limit is 20... Muscle is protein so eat more meat right? Or more carbs? I am not sure. Eating a tin of tuna before wight lifting; will it help as been a sorce of pure protein.. Or should i have a salad. I am no into the protein shake business as i find it too expensive. Would protein tablets help? How much protein is too much? I am not too sure of alot as you can see...
I hope you guys in here can give me a good idea of what to do. I am not too keen on the carb binging on a saturday sunda and monday. I have alot of fat as you can see in my profile. Hope to get some good advice. Thanks alot



If you arent keen on carb loading for 24-48 hours you should research a TKD. Its bascially an Atkins type plan all of the time except before and after weight training when you take in carbs to fuel your workouts and help in recovery.

Sounds like the perfect plan for what you are looking for.

As far as how much protein is enough.....how much are you currently taking in? Atkins usually is VERY high in protein so I would guess you are getting enough without even knowing it.
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  #3   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-03, 06:47
westsnoop westsnoop is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: body opus
Stats: 256/235/200
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Michigan
Default

I think that gaining muscle mass while running a calorie deficit won't work! I know Atkins dieters don't count calories, just carb grams, but the truth is you won't lose weight unless there is a calorie deficit.
On another board I frequent the consensus seems to be that only a grossly untrained person will see any muscle gains at all (when they start training). Some posters say the gains in these people only come for a short period, then their strength and muscle size plateaus.
Strictly ketogenic diets are famous for maintaining muscle mass, but not for adding it. On the other hand, you say you carry a lot of fat...you may already have more muscle than you know! Think of how strong you would have to be if you weighed 150 lbs. and had to carry around a 70 lb. weight with you 24/7!
I'd do what KC recommended!

Last edited by westsnoop : Fri, Aug-08-03 at 07:10.
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  #4   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-03, 07:03
westsnoop westsnoop is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: body opus
Stats: 256/235/200
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Michigan
Default

You have me thinking in another direction on what causes muscle mass, and I'd appreciate some input!
Marathoners have small legs. Sprinters have huge thighs. A lot of powerlifters are not big guys...but they can outlift many very large bodybuilders.
I'm thinking that muscle size is correlated to time under tension. If the time is too long (like a marathoner) the muscle doesn't grow. Too short, like the guy doing 1 rep of a squat, and there is some growth, but nothing like the 6 plus rep guy.
Or could it simply be a training balance between fast and slow twitch muscle fibers?
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  #5   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-03, 07:50
KC_Pike's Avatar
KC_Pike KC_Pike is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 210
 
Plan: TKD
Stats: 238/208/200 Male 6 feet
BF:16, 7.5, 4
Progress: 79%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsnoop
You have me thinking in another direction on what causes muscle mass, and I'd appreciate some input!
Marathoners have small legs. Sprinters have huge thighs. A lot of powerlifters are not big guys...but they can outlift many very large bodybuilders.
I'm thinking that muscle size is correlated to time under tension. If the time is too long (like a marathoner) the muscle doesn't grow. Too short, like the guy doing 1 rep of a squat, and there is some growth, but nothing like the 6 plus rep guy.
Or could it simply be a training balance between fast and slow twitch muscle fibers?


It has to do with the TYPE of muscle fibers used for these different activities. Lyle talks about this in his book if I remember correctly.
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  #6   ^
Old Fri, Aug-08-03, 08:10
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by westsnoop
Or could it simply be a training balance between fast and slow twitch muscle fibers?
Bingo

Marathoners have a predominance of Slow Twitch, Type I fibers. Power lifters have a predominance of Fast Twitch, Type II (type IIB specifically) fibers. This is partly due to genetics, but repetitive exercise of a specific type can lead to fiber recruitment.

You might find this of help:

Hypertropy and Hyperplasia

Cheers,
Nat
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  #7   ^
Old Sat, Aug-09-03, 11:47
Alopex's Avatar
Alopex Alopex is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 551
 
Plan: Hypoallergenic diet
Stats: 117/112/- Female 64"
BF:
Progress:
Location: Toronto
Default

I believe that part of the reason for marathoners and various types of long-distance athletes who tend to look stringy also has to do with catabolism and cortisol due to lengthy stress on the muscles without adequate nutrients being taken in to prevent catabolic effects.
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  #8   ^
Old Mon, Aug-11-03, 11:41
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alopex
I believe that part of the reason for marathoners and various types of long-distance athletes who tend to look stringy also has to do with catabolism and cortisol due to lengthy stress on the muscles without adequate nutrients being taken in to prevent catabolic effects.
This is also a big part of it, Alopex. It's also why long distance athletes also suffer from more colds and flus than the general public. They simply can't keep up with the amounts of cortisol they are producing.

A little more on the subject of cortisol , if you're interested.

Nat
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  #9   ^
Old Thu, Sep-11-03, 12:25
222*2 222*2 is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 101
 
Plan: CKD (Modified)
Stats: 27%/22%/15% Female 5'3"
BF:
Progress: 62%
Default Thank you for the great info!

Natrushka,

Just wanted to thank you for the link.
When I was on Atkins and actively losing weight and working out a lot, I noticed that if I go for so many days without a break and have a few days of less sleep, I will get a cold every time, no matter what.

I did not know why it happened, but this explained it and I have learned to take a break and also try to not undersleep too many days in a row.
I am trying CAD/CALP now, but I do still take intrest in Atkins and other low carb and exercise subjects.
Thanks.
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  #10   ^
Old Mon, Aug-11-03, 07:44
westsnoop westsnoop is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 37
 
Plan: body opus
Stats: 256/235/200
BF:
Progress: 38%
Location: Michigan
Default

I'm with KC on your protien requirements. Currently I am consuming about .7 grams of protien per lb. of bodyweight, and you'll here a lot of advice to take 1 gram or better per lb. Personally, I think the 1 gram "golden rule" is something the supplement companies came up with to sell more protien powder!
It's strange, but I get a good energy boost just out of tablespoon of olive oil pre-workout!
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  #11   ^
Old Thu, Sep-11-03, 12:46
Natrushka Natrushka is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 11,512
 
Plan: IF +LC
Stats: 287/165/165 Female 66"
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

You're welcome I'm glad it was of help!

-Nat
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