What I mean by that, for you physiology experts, is....

Are there certain types of carbs, or combinations of carbs/fats/proteins, that will not have as potent a negative effect on us? Is it better to eat carbs quickly in one major binge, or is it better to spread them out? Is it better to eat them alone, or with proteins, or with fats? And if so, what ratio is ideal.

For example, If you have already made the decision to indulge (for this post, the reason does not matter, this is a physiology question) in bread, is it better to have a half a loaf in one sitting, or is it better to have 2 or 3 slices with breakfast, then lunch, then dinner? Better to have one big carb blowout event, or a few smaller ones in one day, with the same total carbs?....Carbs seem to go with fat naturally (bread & butter, pizza, ice cream etc.); is there any physiological benefit to add protein to the mix? For example, bread and butter is carbs and fat, no protein, but a meat sandwich is carbs and protein and fat; does the protein component affect how the body reacts?

Thanks.

Ooo, I have similar questions.

If, just for the sake of argument you understand, one were to endulge in the forbidden carb, could you mitigate the effects of higher insulin by not eating again for many hours? Like, say, having a big pancake breakfast and then not eating again until a late dinner?

And what about Mr. Fish's question about mixing fats and carbs......I have a pal (of course she is irritatingly thin and gorgeous already, but she's in LA so I forgive her) doing the Suzanne Somers thing and apparently she's allowed carby meals as long as there is no fat mixed in at all. Not sure I see the point of that - pasta without sauce? why? - but it's supposed to be based on some sort of scientific principle.

How much does it take to raise your insulin at a meal, and does it stay up all day, converting everything you eat into fat? I know that if I really cheat (on sweets) then I want to eat continuously all day---I can't stop eating to stop the fat storage!

I never understood the Suzanne Somer's rule, so I couldn't stick to her plan. I ended up doing more of a Schwarzbein thing. Now, she would say that if you eat popcorn, you SHOULD put butter on it to slow the entry into the bloodstream... She always advocates fats/proteins with limited amounts of carbs. Of course, that's good carbs!

I'd love to hear the answers from some experts!

The one and only rime I cheated, I ate ate a whole box of belgium chocolates at once. My son came back from Europe with it as a gift to me and I didnt want to have a piece or a 1/2 piece here and there, I just wanted to get rid of it. So I finished it all in one day, my carbs for that day were in the 100's but the next day I just went back to induction and pretended it never happened lol

There's a good article on the glycemic index here that explains the effects of fast and slow carbs and a post here on the glycemic index and load.

There is the CAD approach where a high carb item is eaten with a balanced meal - salad, vegetables, protein - within the time frame of an hour to prevent an insulin spike. I doesn't work though if you go on an all out super binge and continue eating carbs afterwards or without the rest of the food.

Protein mitigates the effect of carbs but they have to be consumed in a controlled manner if there is such a thing when it comes to a carb binge!


Karen

Not to sound mean, your question was good at looking into what combinations would do the least damage and everyone must do what works for them, BUT the best way to cheat is
DO NOT CHEAT!!
I don't want to rant, but it amazes me how many posts there are about cheats and excuses for them ranging from it was a holiday, or I just had to celebrate or I just had to whatever. I am by no means perfect and am just trying to do the best with this WOL to be happy and healthy for myself. Just like when my mom bakes homemade bread and says just a little won't hurt and I smile and turn away, I will not cheat on myself. Same as if a cute guy hits on you - no you don't (hopefully) cheat on your husband, you smile and turn away. I don't see a lot of difference - cheating only hurts someone, that's why it is called cheating and not achieving. Thanks for letting me be a grouch. It is TOM and I had a hard week. I am very proud of how well you have lost fishfish and hope I can do as well.
Marie

Marie, this question is not about whether it is right or wrong to "cheat". In fact, I do not even like the word; but that debate is for another post. Everyone has very different opinions about "cheating", and there have been threads that deal with this. But to pretend that it will not ever happen is unrealistic, so why not try to have as much information about the physiology of it as possible?

This is an important question relating to how our body reacts differently to carbs in different circumstances. I do not plan on living the rest of my life without any carbs; do I plan on living LC for a very long time? Yes. Do I plan on indulging occassionally? Yes. And if I chose to indulge or "cheat", I am interested in knowing if there are less harmful ways to do so.

By the way, I have not "cheated" since I started this woe 13 months ago; not on my one year anniversary, not on my 40th birthday, and not on any holiday.

Hey Fishfish,

In my humble opinion ( I am new to the board and fairly new to this WOL. But anyone who has lost 100 pounds in a year does not need to exsplain themselves.

Gabrielle

Fishfish, congrats on being so close to goal! You must feel pretty darn good.

In my understanding, I think it's best to keep indulgences small and in the context of healthful meals. So close to maintenance, you are not seeking ketosis and can probably afford a few extras here and there. Generally if I want a high glycemic food that I "shouldn't" have, it doesn't affect me if paired with a balanced meal. It's when the indulgence is alone that insulin spikes and cravings and binges tend to happen. As for spreading it throughout the day, I think that can really wreck havoc on the system when you're not used to steady carbs anymore. I think it's physiologically better to have a single dose and then back to LC business.

Congratulations again on your success!

Thanks Skamito, and congrats to you too.

Gabrielle, thanks, and welcome to this site....Actually I have only lost 99; maybe after I do hit the century mark I will feel free from the need to explain myself (lol).

But seriously, I am really interested in the physiological aspects of my question, not because I plan on having Pizza and Ice Cream tomorrow, but because there have occassionally been days when I have eaten more carbs than my normal level of 15-30 grams, indulging in nuts or peanut butter or sugar free popsicles. I have found that sometimes when I have eaten a few too many carbs it has taken me out of ketosis for a day or two, and sometimes it has had no effect on ketosis; so I was curious about this, thinking that it might have something to do with timing/frequency/food combinations,etc.

That`s a very valid question and I think Frederik(maintenance) could answer this if he read it, but I don`t know how to reach him.He has done a lot of research on things like this and i`m quite certain that he could help!

Thanks Jaybee. Frederick, if you're out there...Natrushka...any science wizzes who understand this stuff a lot more than I do?

Thanks.

Yeah, Nat, where are you? You are now my guru on questions like this.

The best was to cheat is to do something like cook yourself a low carb chocloate cake, fill it with cream and diabetic jam and eat it all to yourself.

You'll feel like you've cheated but you haven't

Hey there, Mikail Forgive me, I've been packing everything I own into brown boxes and buying things I don't need to replace the stuff I'm throwing to the curb. Moving is such a joy

Check out Karen's links - the G.I. will play a role in how carbs effect insulin release, as will what you pair them with - carbs alone or carbs in excess after a meal with carbs in excess (a la CAD) will also be a big determining factor. Eating the carbs was not what got many of us into our respective messes, eating them in excess and then following that up with another excessive dose of them when blood sugar plummetted is to blame. It's the cycle of high carb, high blood sugar, high insulin, low blood sugar, high carb that causes the damage.

If you're really interested in learning about the biochemistry that happens when you consume these foods I would suggest boning up on the works of Lyle McDonald:

Wannabebig interview with the Fat Loss king Part I

Wannabebig interview with the Fat Loss king Part II

Wannabebig interview with the Fat Loss king Part III

Articles at Think Muscle dot com on the CKD

Happy reading
N