Active Low-Carber Forums
Atkins diet and low carb discussion provided free for information only, not as medical advice.
Home Plans Tips Recipes Tools Stories Studies Products
Active Low-Carber Forums
A sugar-free zone


Welcome to the Active Low-Carber Forums.
Support for Atkins diet, Protein Power, Neanderthin (Paleo Diet), CAD/CALP, Dr. Bernstein Diabetes Solution and any other healthy low-carb diet or plan, all are welcome in our lowcarb community. Forget starvation and fad diets -- join the healthy eating crowd! You may register by clicking here, it's free!

Go Back   Active Low-Carber Forums > Main Low-Carb Diets Forums & Support > Low Carb Health & Technical Forums > Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes
User Name
Password
FAQ Members Calendar Search Gallery My P.L.A.N. Survey


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   ^
Old Sun, Oct-12-03, 18:48
MsDad's Avatar
MsDad MsDad is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 127
 
Plan: LC
Stats: 266/224/185 Male 72 in
BF:?%/30%/15%
Progress: 52%
Location: St Johns, FL USA
Default Prandin & beta cells

I take Metformin (1000 mg 2x/day) and Prandin (4 mg before meals) for my T2. I am also highly insulin resistant. Is the Prandin just forcing my pancreas to work harder and harder, possibly leading to beta cell burnout? My Dr. has mentioned lately putting me on insulin for a while. He didn't say it was to give my pancreas a rest, but would going on insulin do that? Might it allow my pancreas time to "regenerate" itself somewhat? Has anyone had any experience with this, or with Prandin in general? I find myself having to take 6 mg instead of the prescribed 4 mg to get my bgl down to the 120-140 mg/dl range.

Eddie
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2   ^
Old Sun, Oct-12-03, 19:30
Luigi's Avatar
Luigi Luigi is offline
New Member
Posts: 13
 
Plan: Atkins
Stats: 285/280/215 Male 6'3"
BF:40.6%/38.5%/20%
Progress: 7%
Location: Union Bridge, Maryland
Default

Are you on a low carbohydrate diet?

I'm not familiar with Prandin, but it sounds like it is a pancreas stimulator.

I'm not sure that beta cells can regenerate, and the insulin will aid in controlling your BG.

What were the levels without medication?
Reply With Quote
  #3   ^
Old Mon, Oct-13-03, 00:20
amika's Avatar
amika amika is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 76
 
Plan: Dr Bernstein/general LC
Stats: 170/155/133 Female 5'1 1/4"
BF:31.5%/28.5%/24.8%
Progress: 41%
Location: Montréal
Default about Prandin

Hi MsDad:

I made a search for Prandin and on the following website:

http://www.nfb.org/vod/vodfal0215.htm

I found an article in Voice of the Diabetic, published quarterly, the national news magazine of the Diabetes Action Network of the National Federation of the Blind.

Prandin is one of the meds described in this article. (see below)

Last year, I found out that the Diabeta (generic name: glburide) I had been taking for about 2 years, is a sulfonylurea, and I was concerned about beta cell destruction as you are about Prandin. At the same time, I started LCing and when my blood glucose started to get down, sometimes close to or at hypo levels, I reduced my intake of Diabeta accordingly. In September 2002, my endocrinologist prescribed metformin.

I asked her for a C Peptide test, which measures the capacity of the pancreas to produce insulin over time - kinda like the A1C test measures blood glucose over a period of 2 to 3 months - and also an insulin test, that is how much insulin was present in the blood at the time of the test. Both tests came out normal! What a relief. Maybe the Diabeta didn't get to do too much damage.

HTH
Denyse

********************************************************

ORAL DIABETES MEDICATIONS UPDATE
by Peter J. Nebergall, Ph.D.


Currently there are an estimated 17 million diabetics in the United States. Perhaps 5 to 10 percent are insulin-dependent; the rest are type 2 diabetics, controlling their condition with diet, exercise, insulin, and oral diabetes medications.

"Oral diabetes medications" are not insulin pills; rather five classes of drugs designed to improve the body's utilization of what insulin is still present. These are: The sulfonylureas, repaglinide and nateglinide, metformin, the "glitazones," and acarbose.

Most of today's "diabetes pills" are sulfonylureas, a class of chemicals that stimulate the pancreas to produce more insulin, effectively lowering blood glucose levels. Type 2 diabetics, those who need better management than diet and exercise can provide alone, often turn to these medications: tolbutamide, chlorpropamide, tolazamide, glyburide, glipizide, and glimepiride, for effective self-management. The sulfonylureas are effective "insulin secretagogues," but only for as long as the impaired pancreas maintains some part of its insulin-making capacity.

But the sulfonylureas grow ever less effective with the passage of time. They drive the failing pancreas to greater effort, but the patient may well require ever-increasing doses to maintain good diabetes control. All this time, the pancreas is continuing to fail, and at some point, no further increase in medication will be effective; the pancreas isn't doing its job. This patient needs to start injecting insulin. When the islet cells of the pancreas cease producing sufficient insulin, insulin must be injected.

Repaglinide (trade name Prandin), along with its sister nateglinide (trade name Starlix), the second class of medications on our list, are a completely new chemical formulation. Prandin and Starlix resemble the sulfonylureas in mechanism of action, in that they stimulate the release of pancreatic insulin, improving blood sugar control (and are of no use in type 1 diabetes, where pancreatic insulin is not present). But they differ from the sulfonylureas in several ways:

* Prandin and Starlix are short-acting, with quick onset and fast excretion, allowing more freedom in the timing of meals (dosages can be taken 0 to 30 minutes before mealtime).

* Unlike the sulfonylureas, Prandin and Starlix are excreted via the liver. Individuals with renal insufficiency (kidney disease) should use caution ("dosage for each patient should be individualized, to achieve optimal clinical response" says Prandin's manufacturer), but even ESRD--end stage renal disease--is not a contraindication for Prandin or Starlix.

* Individuals with hepatic (liver) impairment should proceed with caution, and with longer intervals between dosages, as the drug will take longer to clear the body.

Metformin (trade name Glucophage), the third oral diabetes medication on our list, works to raise the body's sensitivity to its own insulin. Used for decades in Europe, it can be prescribed alone or with the sulfonylureas. Metformin helps the type 2 diabetic make better use of the insulin he or she has left. Like the sulfonylureas, it becomes useless when the pancreas ceases producing insulin.

Glucovance is a special case. A mix of metformin and the sulfonylurea glyburide, it represents convenient combination therapy. Being part metformin, it carries metformin's cautions: against heavy consumption of alcohol, against use when chronic kidney problems are present, and against use by pregnant women. Its clinical effects are the same as those of metformin taken with a sulfonylurea.

The "glitazones" (medically the thiazolidinediones): Actos, from Takeda Pharmaceuticals; Avandia, from Smith-Kline Beecham; and now-banned Rezulin, from Parke-Davis, are the fourth class of oral medication. These medications directly attack the problem of insulin resistance, the increasing inability to process insulin, that is the chief component of type 2 diabetes. In tests, they have enabled many diabetics to reduce volume and frequency of insulin injections. A few were able to discontinue insulin injections entirely.

Initially, the glitazones were tested and approved for use with insulin-using type 2 diabetics. As tests continued, it became clear they were also effective blood glucose reducers, either alone (in combination with diet and exercise), or in combination with a sulfonylurea, for type 2 diabetics who did not need insulin (although not a replacement for the sulfonylureas). Other applications and combinations may well follow.

Rezulin was the first of the class to be approved, and was very widely prescribed. It did its job very well, but collected a history of hepatic (liver) side effects. Doctors were asked to closely monitor their Rezulin-using patients. Much of the liver damage proved temporary, with normal function restored upon cessation of Rezulin therapy, but there were cases of serious, permanent damage, and more than 60 deaths. Early this year, the Food and Drug Administration asked Parke-Davis to remove Rezulin from the market.

At this time, there is no evidence that Actos (pioglitazone hydrochloride) or Avandia (rosiglitazone maleate) cause the same permanent liver damage, but doctors have been advised to follow the same liver-monitoring routines as for Rezulin, in case a similar pattern of damage appears.

Acarbose (trade name Precose, from Bayer), the fifth of the "oral meds" on our list, is completely different. A carbohydrase inhibitor, it temporarily suppresses the digestive enzymes which turn carbohydrates into glucose, slowing digestion and glucose absorption, keeping glucose levels more even. More a management tool than an antidote to insulin shortage, Acarbose helps some diabetics keep a more constant blood glucose level. A "temperamental" medication, it has many side effects, and is less than universal in its utility. New Glyset (miglitol), from Pharmacia-UpJohn, appears to work in the same general manner.

Problems
Unfortunately, oral medications are often eventually insufficient. Many type 2 diabetics, diagnosed as young adults, at first successfully control their condition with diet and exercise, but find they need the pills as they grow older. A number of years (and dosage increases) later, these diabetics have reached the limit of what oral medications can do for them; they are "maxed out," and really need to start injecting insulin, to keep their blood glucose at a safe level. (Note: Regular, frequent blood glucose monitoring and HbA1c testing will show if you have reached the point where you should begin insulin therapy.)

Here we encounter what the drug companies call "psychological insulin resistance." Some of this is plain old fear of sticking yourself with needles-nurtured by memories from our childhood in the bad old days of dull-as-nails reusable syringes! Many men would rather face a bayonet. But some doctors contribute to the problem when they don't make it clear to the patient what the high glucose levels (consequent to remaining on now-useless oral medications) will bring in their wake, or worse, when they assume their patient would resist commencing regular insulin injections--so they don't even suggest it. Yes, insulin is a powerful medication, with risks if used incorrectly--but what in this world DOESN'T have risks if used incorrectly? A "completely safe" medication would have to be a powerless one, and the risks of remaining on oral diabetes medications once pancreatic insulin has diminished or ceased entirely are far greater than the risks of taking insulin.

Oral Insulin?
Recent reports have mentioned insulin administration by mouth. The nature of insulin, and of human digestion, make oral administration of insulin, in "pill" form, ineffective for blood glucose management-the insulin is digested before it can reach the bloodstream. However, several different groups are pursuing variations of inhaled insulin, and at least two of these are in late clinicals -- and may prove sufficient to pass FDA regulatory oversight. There are no "oral insulins" available for prescription -- yet.


I note that in several diabetes prevention trials, individuals considered at high risk for developing diabetes (but not yet "diabetic") were given oral insulin in an effort to misdirect their body's autoimmune attack on the Beta cells of the pancreas. So far, that strategy has not produced positive findings.

The Future
Amylin Pharmaceuticals, Inc., has continued work on their Extendin-4 (AC2993), an analog of the hormone GLP-1, glucagon-like-peptide. This investigational diabetes drug has shown a number of potentially therapeutic effects in animal-based tests. Vitrase, from Advanced Corneal Systems, a drug that may help clear vitreous hemorrhage (following diabetic retinopathy), is currently in FDA clinicals. Trental (pentoxifyline, from Hoechst Marion Roussel) is now available to treat "intermittent claudication," a painful circulatory ailment and frequent companion of diabetic peripheral neuropathy. Some doctors are prescribing the antidepressant Paxil or the antiseizure medication Neurontin to treat painful neuropathy symptoms. ACE inhibitors, a class of blood pressure medications like Capoten (Captopril), have been proven to deter and retard diabetic kidney complications, and there is some evidence they aid against diabetic retinopathy as well.

Good work is being done with "combination therapy," where two known ingredients are combined into a new medication more effective than either component. We've mentioned Glucovance, but there is also work being done with blood pressure medications, combining an ACE inhibitor with a calcium channel blocker. Other oral medications are constantly being evaluated for possible diabetic applications, and some will make it to the pharmacy shelf.

Many of these are new, investigational or just-licensed prescription medications. Talk to your doctor about them. I list them here as an example of how unbelievably rapid is the pace of change. Where will we be two years from now? We'll be doing even better!

Last edited by amika : Mon, Oct-13-03 at 01:10.
Reply With Quote
  #4   ^
Old Mon, Oct-13-03, 01:38
p_rosie's Avatar
p_rosie p_rosie is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 572
 
Plan: PP
Stats: 183/165/145 Female 5'6
BF:41/39/20's
Progress: 47%
Location: Northern California
Default

Thanks Denyse for the informative post. The maze that is diabetes is incredible, shedding any light is appreciated.

Eddie,
You could ask for more info on this drug at Dr. Bernstien's website diabetes-book.com or read his book online there too. He is an innovator in diabetes care.
Rosie
Reply With Quote
  #5   ^
Old Mon, Oct-13-03, 17:42
eevee's Avatar
eevee eevee is offline
Senior Member
Posts: 1,663
 
Plan: Free-range
Stats: 161/154/140 Female 65
BF:
Progress: 33%
Location: King Country New Zealand
Default

Just a wee note re Dr PJ Nebergall's article:
I am Type 1 and take Metformin 500mg x three daily + Novorapid and Protophane. The good doctor states "metformin becomes useless..."
In my experience, it enhances the sensitivity to insulin, whether it is injected or 'home made'. I have decreased my insulin requirements by as much as 12 units per day, and I put this down, for the most part, to metformin's assistance (plus eating less carbs). It is a long time since I produced any insulin of my own !!
Eve
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Metabolic Typing Greenwings Low-Carb War Zone 107 Tue, Apr-27-04 18:45
Killing beta cells: in the genes? Grimalkin Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes 1 Tue, Mar-23-04 14:02
"2 genes found to stop fat cells from forming" gotbeer LC Research/Media 0 Mon, Jul-21-03 11:29
Fat cells communicate with nerve cells doreen T LC Research/Media 4 Sat, Oct-20-01 19:23
Transplanted Pig Cells Help Control Diabetes tamarian Dr.Bernstein & Diabetes 3 Fri, Jun-15-01 12:53


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 14:39.


Copyright © 2000-2024 Active Low-Carber Forums @ forum.lowcarber.org
Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.