I'll be honest and say the reason I don't visit that forum is that my perception is that "turtles" aren't doing all they can to lose weight, and that losing weight is way down on their pripority list. I'm doing all kinds of things to keep from stalling out such as:

cardio
weight training
CAD
low cal/low fat
fasting

If you've ever heard the expression "if you want to get smarter, hang out with intelligent friends" that's where I'm coming from. There are people here doing amazing things, and those are the people I can best learn from.

If they ever come up with a "hares" forum, that's where I'll be