View Single Post
  #42   ^
Old Tue, Feb-17-04, 18:56
ItsTheWooo's Avatar
ItsTheWooo ItsTheWooo is offline
Registered Member
Posts: 4,815
 
Plan: My Own
Stats: 280/118/117.5 Female 5ft 5.25 in
BF:
Progress: 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleoanth
Excuse me, but philosophically I also think nonhuman animals lives are just as important as human lives. That does not mean that I think the tactics employed by some of these groups is right. And ethically, one of the major ethicists of all time Immanuel Kant would agree with me.


I'm not trying to offend you, but if you truly believe that animals are morally equal to humans, then to be logically consistent, you must also believe that purposely killing and eating an animal would be morally the same as eating another human and committing cannibalism. If you really believe this, in your mind eating animals would be murder, and those who consciously choose to adopt a meat-eating lifestyle (read: those who make a conscious choice to consume meat and are not just ignorant/unaware of their food choices) are choosing to be murderers.
It seems to me that moral vegetarians truly can't respect the choice to be carnivorous while being logically consistent in their beliefs. They need to believe that those who choose to be carnivorous do what they do out of ignorance, either that or they are very cruel people ... but no matter the justification, they just truly cant accept the choice that was made and feel that in an optimal world, the choice should be changed.

I know it sounds like I am painting you and all vegetarians to be a group of crazy nuts who actively accuse meat-eaters of murder, that is not my intent. I am just trying to get you to recognize the fact that belief in vegetarianism is intrinsically linked with the belief that meat eaters are unknowingly doing something bad. It is impossible for a vegetarian to truly respect the choice others make to be carnivorous, because being carnivorous goes against the fundamental beliefs of the moral vegetarian. Keep in mind, I am not saying all vegetarians secretly wish to engage in gorilla warfare against cattle ranchers and steak houses . I am just saying that not doing anything to stop carnivores from eating meat, and actually respecting their choice to eat meat are two different things.

I know that not all vegetarians support the radical extremists which force their religious beliefs on others, I am sorry if it sounded like I was saying that. Most vegetarians (as I am sure you are) are peaceful, and do not feel people should be forced to convert to the vegetarian belief system (even if they do believe that we are doing wrong, unknowingly).

What I was trying to say is this. Religion and science are incompatible. A group which is founded on the belief that animals are equal or superior to human lives cannot and will not act in the best interest of science, because if science is ever at odds with their religious beliefs there will be a conflict of interests. It is impossible for a vegan group to also be a completely scientifically objective one. At worst, they will always choose to support the vegan philosophy at the cost of scientific realities of human health and nutritional needs, or at best, they will come to a comprimise and uncovering the secrets as to the optimal human thriving environment will STILL be sacrificed.

The fact is, any self-described scientific group who has well known ties into a certain religious/moral movement (such as the vegan PCRM) is always lying about their agenda. It is impossible to be health/science first, vegan second, and if they claim so they are lying. Science and religion are incompatible; religion is subjective and not based in observable, logical, tangible reality. Science is the exact polar opposite. Any scientific group with strong influential religious undertones is always going to be smoke and mirrors to promote the religion. The only question that remains will be is exactly how much does the group favor religion over science?

The important thing to groups like PCRM is always going to be sparing the lives of animals through veganism; making a vegan lifestyle fit scientific reality and humanity is a secondary priority. Everything they research and support will be done to make science fit the religious paradigm. It will never be examined whether or not the paradigm is the best one for everyone (which is true to SCIENCE), because examining the belief and modifying it to fit scientific reality would go against their religious beliefs. If what I say weren't true, animal rights groups and people wouldn't mindlessly bash dietary regimens which encourage the consumption of a wide variety of animal proteins (like Atkins) even when said programs have shown to improve health, when all other programs failed (INCLUDING vegetarianism) for a significant portion of the human population.

So in closing, I apologize if it seemed as if I were saying all vegetarians support the active violation of civil rights and quack religiously-influenced science. This is obviously untrue, most people, including most vegetarians and vegans, do not feel others should be forced to adopt their belief systems (even if they may believe others are unknowingly doing wrong).

All I was trying to say is that it is impossible for a group with a vegan agenda to contribute anything to science, and any claims that they are, are in a word, bullsh*t.
Reply With Quote