atkins...do you think the plan needs some updating?
 

I started out on Atkins...technically, I am on Atkins. But I am reading about other low carb plans and I think I should incorporate some of the rules of those into my plan, like I have been posting about yogurt a lot on here. Only some people have been receptive to this idea. The Go-Plan involves at least a cup of yogurt a day, and they want you to focus on lean cuts of meat and stay away from red meat. Kind of a healthier Atkins, with less emphasis on strict carb reduction. They say stay under 50 carbs and you're golden. Atkins stresses that you NEVER cheat, but I think that the Carb Addict's Diet could be useful to someone who wants to eat "real" food on their birthday or something. Just for that day. I know my birthday is coming up, and while I am not planning on going apesh*t at Los Reyes and eating 3 burritos and drinking a pitcher of margaritas..but I plan on just not counting my carbs that day, eating basically eggs and salad for breakfast and lunch, and eating tortilla-less fajitas, having wine, and maybe some fruit for dessert at the restaraunt. Atkins just reminds me a little too much of Weight Watchers sometimes in how they focus more on the carb/point value on things and not on what it is IN your food. Maybe my health ideas are just evolving, I don't know. Tell me what YOU think.

I don't think it needs a revision. I might have thought so if Dr A were still with us and he came across new research that changed his mind on an issue, but otherwise, that's why there are different plans. He firmly believed that the research condemning red meat was just plain wrong. He (or at least his associates at the Atkins center) disagreed with the "bacteria eats all the lactose in yogurt" myth. An individual author should do his/her research and present us with their NSHO. Thusly, we can read the different plans, see what makes the most sense to us and whether or not their plan will fit into our lifestyle, and adapt our plans accordingly. :thup: I wouldn't have much confidence in an author who caves to popular opinion if it's not supported by science.

Protein Power is an example of a plan in which one can see some revisionism - the Eadeses changed their minds on a couple of issues in their plan, and explained why in their second book.

This isn't entirely relevant, but I would like to point out that even if you ARE worried about saturated fats—a concern not necessarily validated by scientific evidence—only about half the fat in red meat is saturated.

BTW-- Atkins DOES mention "cheating" at least once. He states that OCCASIONALLY, deliberately, "stopping Atkins" and having a longed-for treat, then getting right back on plan is okay... if it's the only thing that'll keep you on-plan in the long run. Just in case you missed it.

I've modified things to suit myself, and continue to experiment, but I still feel that individual plans need to be followed as written, then modified by the individual if needed to suit their tastes/results/needs.

As far as "point counting" and not differentiating what's IN the foods... Atkins as written emphasizes getting the most nutrition for your carbs with veggies, low-gi fruit, and eventually whole grains. I think the "point system" and lc junk foods counting equally is kind of a recent development as the market gets flooded with low-carb products and people who don't take the time to read the various books decide that "If it says low-carb it's healthy".

The only thing I think atkins should have reconsidered is a) how to approach maintenance and b) portion control.

Atkins says to add back carbs in 5 gram increments and to climb the carb ladder until you notice a cessation of weight loss. IMO this is not totally accurate, because once you add more carbs your body will refill muscles with glycogen which causes water retention (and therefore water weight gain). It may seem like you've stopped losing or even gained, but in reality you could still be losing fat. So, I think he should have either had a symptom-based approach to maintenance (add back stuff until your symptoms return whatever they may have been), or he should have warned people of the potential for water-related weight fluctuations and therefore recommended monitoring weight over a several-week period. There are too many people out there who think they can't eat more than 30 grams of carbs "without gaining weight". While theoretically true (eating more than 30 grams causes them to gain weight), it is meaningless as the weight gain is all water and stored carb.

I don't like the lack of emphasis on portion control either. In OWL if one is following the book strictly, eating several atkins endulge bars might be considered ok because they are so low carb. Of course if someone were to do this they wouldn't lose weight. I think he overestimated the satiety effects of his diet... sure meat and fat is filling, but a lot of people always have room for cookies and cheese cake :D. With all the low carb snack foods available now, it's all too easy to stay low carb while still eating too much to lose weight. I think he was correct in getting rid of the obsession with counting calories, but he should have made it more clear to people that portion sizes do count and you will not lose if you eat too much. There are actually some people out there who don't realize Atkins isn't an all you can eat diet, even though he says (indirectly) to eat until you are hungry and then eat no more.

The thing I would update about ATkins is the area where it talks about how hard it is to be vegetarian, and that most vegetarians do not stay on the plan long, etc, etc.

I saw Dr. Atkins interview on Oprah many years ago and she asked him what a vegetarian would eat on atkins, and he was not sture. 'tofu stir fry maybe?' and Oprah replied sarcastically 'yummy'.

I would just update that since eating on atkins is the easiest thing I have ever done, much easier than that disgusting Slimfast plan I have tried. And I only eat tofu stirfries if I WANT to. ;)

Pardon me, I just don't like it when it is said that Atkins is not a healthy diet. It is very healthy. It has been proven that the saturated fats in red meat are good for you, not the other way around. A balanced diet should have saturated and non saurated fats. THe only thing that I can see that would make the diet unhealthy is the dieter's refusal to add veggies. I am on this diet because red meat is on it. Yogurt? I used to eat some low carb yogurts if I found them but I prefer the taste of sour cream. Instead of eating yogurt I blend cinnamon and splenda into some sour cream and dollop that on some strawberries. I never ate that much yogurt anyway. My sour cream concoction is a better treat.

I am pleased with the Atkins diet. I feel that as a low-carber, that I should know as much about all of the low carb diets that I can and be an ally and supporter of them. I see no need for a revision because everyone fits these diets to their own tastes.

Hey, I hope no one thinks that I think Atkins is unhealthy....but diets are seemingly as diverse and controversial as religions these days. I am reading different books, piecing together what I feel would work for me, and testing it. I do follow Atkins, but to a point:

When I call Atkins about products they are just very by the numbers "Go by the package, subtract the fiber". I didn't mean to sound like I was saying that Atkins doesn't care WHAT we eat, but I feel like since he is not around, things may be going slightly awry at Atkins. For example, in his book he says to count eggs as .6 per egg. Call the 800 Atkins number or email Atkins, and they tell you NOT to count eggs, AT ALL. And I wonder if new studies are going on there.

I see I have started a major debate about yogurt since I posted about it the first time a few days ago. I stand by it. It causes absolutely no spike or drop in my blood sugar. Of course, that's me and my body. I feel better since starting to eat it again.

So does the water and stored carbs ever go away? How long until weight loss resumes? Will it? And how do you know for sure it really is water retention/stored carbs?

Good question......

What Atkins also stresses it this - after the most strict induction and OWL we are supposed to find our individual carb levels. More important - we are supposed to relax and enjoy food instead of obsessing about it. He is not advocating staying on induction forever.
That is what Atkins is for me.

As for the famous 'cheating'.....for me personally there was never a question of 'having some pasta when I reach my goal' or 'rewarding myself with candy'.....sugar and white flour in any form are banned. BUT - having yoghurt, fruit or even carrots and corn is OK, it is not straying from the plan.

Again - he meant for us to enjoy food....obsessing was not recommended ;)

Alina

Water and stored glycogen will only go away when it is depleted through exercise or carbohydrate restriction. This is not the same thing as storing fat. It is entirely possible to have full glycogen stores and still be metabolically well (i.e. normal insulin reaction and blood sugars).

The only way to know how much carb you can handle is to experiment. Don't make knee jerk asusmptions based on what happens after a day, or even a week or two. If you do not lose over several weeks on a higher carbohydrate allowance, that is probably your maintanence spot. If you gain slowly after several weeks, you are above maintanence.

If you gain a pound over night, this is not fat. This is water weight from glycogen. You are most likely not yet at your CCLM.

After reading a few books, visiting websites, and thinking about it a lot, I developed my own rules for eating. Then I picked up SP1, and it was so similar to what I was doing. Some of my rules...

- eat, that is, early and often
- eat meals that are balanced for macronutrients
- eat real, not invented or highly processed foods, you know, the things that were alive yesterday, don`t have bar codes on them, don`t have an ingredient list because they are simply what is written on the label in large type
- quality of fat does matter, as does quality of carbs
- go easy on caffeine, alcohol and drugs
- get enough sleep
- enjoy life
- eat animals and plants that have enjoyed life
- exercise regularly but it does not have to be extreme
- use the zone method to decide how much protein to take
- a little rule from Udo: buy food that spoils easily, eat it before it does
- buy from farmers, greengrocers and fishermen, not from monolithic corporations
- choose low glycemic alternatives
- choose nutrient dense carbs (v-e-g-e-t-a-b-l-e-s)

"eat real, not invented or highly processed foods"

- couldn't agree more, and I think if Dr Atkins were around he would be upset in the way that new highly processed foods (albeit low carb) are now being promoted so heavily - including, it must be said, by the corporate Atkins group to which he and his widow sold their interests.

It is worth remembering that the low fat phenomenon. although misguided, originally suggested the consumption of a collection of natural and for the most part healthy foods, including vegetables, fruit, meat and fish. It was just the emphasis on grains and the fear of the wrong fats that were its original flaws. It got competely out of control, and much worse from a dietary point of view, when highly processed low fat alternatives to "real" food were adopted for their convenience.

I am convinced if Dr Atkins were around today he would be re-emphasising the healthy, natural, whole food approach with which he began .

Malcolm

I think there's a lot of doubt about whether saturated fats are actually bad for you. I don't really feel any other diet has anything over Atkins health wise. CAD has you eating carbs everyday at the reward meal. I think they redid the reward meal from when I did it, it was everything goes back then. Now I think they've toned it down a lot. Anyway, I lost nothing on CAD, but I didn't gain either, I think.

I don't see why you couldn't do Atkins + yogurt if you wanted. Some things that might help counter the sugar in Atkins is consuming it with fat and/or fiber.

I think people need to remember that some weight (say 5 to 7 pounds) is actually water loss caused by the elimination of the Glycogen stores. If you go on maintenance and slowly add in carbs, you may be able to sustain your weight over the long term with a level of carbs that maintains a Glycogen level.

That means that if you lost weight to 170 pounds, your actual weight with normal Glycogen may be 175. So if your weight goes back up to that level, that doesn't mean you are gaining weight, it means you are eating enough carbs to maintain a glycogen store.

It is quite possible that you would find that your weight remains steady at that 175 level and hence, you are on a good maintenance diet. However, if you over react to the initial weight gain, you will convince yourself that you need to eat less carbs that you really do for maintenance.

Final thought... If you really want to be 170 on a normal maintenance level with Glycogen, you really need to get down to 165 before you begin your maintenance phase. Doesn't that just suck. :)

Brobin