Satiety Index vs Nutrient Density vs Protein
A slightly different Satiety Index from HAVA's, adding World-wide data to the scoring. It gives more weight to Nutrients, calibrated with 620k days of data from people all over the world. BW asked about the calculation of a Satiety Index https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...05&postcount=38
This is Marty Kendall's Satiety Index: https://public.tableau.com/app/prof...tein/allfoods_1 The x-axis shows the new satiety score, and the y-axis shows nutrient density. The colours are based on the protein (%). A popup with more details will appear if you mouse over the dots. Must use a computer to open a tableau, not much visible with a mobile device. https://members.optimisingnutrition...m_source=manual (Free membership community on Mighty Networks) Quote:
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I started looking at the chart - and immediately started looking for the foods that personally provide the most satiety for ME.
They were mostly pretty low on the satiety scale. Then I looked for some foods that I can easily overeat (practically binge level) because they don't provide any real satiety for me personally - and found some of those higher on the satiety scale. The best I could figure out just based on the specific foods I looked at, that his scale doesn't put anywhere near as much emphasis on the satiety aspect of a higher fat content, and the "nutrient bliss" problem from some moderate to low-ish carbohydrate foods (that he did not identify as foods you could eat all day long: as my digestive system does. I realize he's going for a much lower fat content (to keep calories lower) than my system seems to need to feel satiated. I didn't see any reference to serving sizes, which seemed odd to me (although admittedly I need to look at his chart in more detail, because I've probably missed something) |
I have finally decided that for me I will follow the "if it’s not broken don’t fix it” way of eating. I will continue to use what has worked for me, low carb (although slightly higher carb than very low carb which I used to follow), portion control and timing. As long as I prioritize protein to 30% or higher, pay attention to micronutrients, and don’t let the occasional craving control me, then it works. DDF doesn’t work for me because my body doesn’t seem to have read the rule book and the timing of my meals is too haphazard for me as I wait, often in vain, for my bg to fall to my trigger. I also find myself not wanting another list of acceptable and less acceptable foods. Staying within a low carb paleo framework as I define it has served me well so why change it? I appreciate all Marty Kendall has done but I find myself happy with how I am eating and no longer really interested in tweaking it any more. Marty taught me about prioritizing protein. That’s worked for me. I don’t seem to need or want to follow him down the path of low fat/satiety. I am glad it helps others but I have finally decided to stop chasing better. How I am doing things is good enough. It’s been over 20 years sine I weighed anything close to 245 lbs so I must be doing something right.
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The Satiety Score is Per Calorie, like Nutrient Density, same as Hava’s Satiety Score. It does not matter what type of diet you prefer, Low Carb or Vegetarian. It also works with any goal, Lose Weight, or Regain Health. If you DO want to lose weight, you would favor a Higher Satiety Score so you will naturally eat less while getting the nutrients that provide satiety. 50-70 usually works for sustainable weight loss.
You may love a BP Coffee because it keeps you satiated until noon. That’s fine, but often it contains 350 cal of CO, butter, cream, and almost no protein or nutrients to provide satiety that prevents overeating later. https://optimisingnutrition.com/satiety-per-calorie/ I still keep a rein on SPC to maintain my weight loss, but that is much easier when I am satiated. I have a list of foods that work for me, both calorie and nutrition wise. But big data lists like this help others who are not at goal weight to find small tweaks to make their menus more satiating. What is a good satiety score.? https://www.hava.co/satiety/what-is...d-satiety-score Quote:
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Marty Kendall added an article (on Twitter and the ON community) on "How to Use the Interactive Satiety/Nutrient Density/Protein Food Chart" It explains how the Nutrient Density Score and Satiety Score work and more tips how to use it for your goals, especially the Sliders.
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Gosh, I aspire to 30🤣
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Bulletproof coffee works for ME. Because I'm a fat burner. JEY is right to caution about it in general, if it leads to actually starving. Since I read comments on health blogs where people complain that they drink the "bulletproof coffee" (and with lots of sugar I AM SURE) so of course they were so hungry they blew up their diet.
They will be hungry until they reach ketosis. My version is decaf, heavy cream, coconut oil, and if it's my caramel flavor I put a few raspberries in the French press. Cinnamon gets some blueberries in the press. Yes, it's flavored coffee! But I'm so sensitive to flavors now I can tell if they are using extracts, or not, and my local roaster does it custom. I add fruit juice instead of artificial, and it's heavenly stuff. Also, vitamin C. (Without grains I do well with Bs and the C. Carbs burn up vitamins!) The hours of energy I get from this breakfast means I eat a protein heavy lunch. And then, a lot of the time, I'm finished for the day, with a nice eating window. But if I am hungry, it's more protein, but also carbs (minimal) and fat (to satiety.) Because I'm burning it for my fuel. I'm thinking if you aren't a fat burner, bulletproof coffee won't work. I drink decaf so the energy isn't from the caffeine, either. People keep looking for "tricks" when some of it can be very simple. But if they are hooked on carbs, they are going to need every bit of help on offer to get off them. |
WearBear …we know you are fat-burner for a good reason, and stick to a therapeutic level consistently, everyday, no "cheats".
There is an interesting discussion on Twitter..long quote to follow but worth it. Quote:
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So, what's your experience? On a calorie-for-calorie basis, is fat the most or least satiating macronutrient? |
Michael Moss's reply
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Even if you avoid sugar by buying keto junk food, you still have that genius fat and carb combo. Fat bombs, Keto bars, Halo and Rebel ice cream, all designed to hit your bliss point so you will eating more calories of everything, and have more cravings for sweet and fat combos. My experience, definitely Protein is the most satiating. Whole food carbs next, foods like carrots and the carbs in NF dairy. Though there is a a satiety response to calcium with that (sometimes I wonder if I am still making up for micronutrient deficiencies). I can eliminate added fats with no effect on satiety or trigger cravings. |
Aside from not drinking coffee to begin with (love how it smells, hate the taste), the lack of a significant amount of protein in bullet-proof coffee - to me that would mean no satiation.
I need that combo of a significant amount of protein along with enough fat to achieve satiation. If it's just protein, I'll still be hungry. Just fat alone doesn't do anything for me either. The fat in a satiating meal provides more calories - after all a gram of fat has more than twice the calories of a gram of protein. So even a plain egg has almost twice as many calories from fat as the number of protein calories. ****** This part was interesting: Quote:
This explains why my naturally skinny friend always declared a lot of sweet stuff to be too sweet. She also couldn't stand dietary fat - or at least thought she hated the taste and texture of dietary fat. There's one grocery store in the area that their in-store bakery uses a frosting that's not as sweet, so she liked cakes from that bakery much better than any others - I tried to explain to her that since frosting only has 2 main ingredients (fat and sugar), then if it wasn't as sweet, that just meant it had a higher percentage of fat. She didn't recognize the frosting as the fatty stuff she hated - just said it was good because it wasn't as sweet. (and stuck to her guns about that the rest of her life) Same with Cinnabon rolls - she hated the frosting - too sweet for her, but she loved the cinnamon, which I'm sure she wasn't aware was a mixture that mostly consisted of a lot of sugar and fat, with only a bit of cinnamon to provide what she perceived as the primary flavor. |
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Amen. Right there as well. I still want to see the Nutrient Bliss algorithm, as we are embarking on an AI world that will inform us about everything, and diet won't be ignored. I also love the phrase, very attractive marketing-wise. One must be very careful when relying on others' (including human-developed SW Programs'???) "intelligence." Me? I'll continue to stick with simple whole foods with emphasis on protein. My N=1 approach has been my best, most dependable strategy so far. |
Update of 1700 Recipes - Satiety vs Nutrient Density vs Protein, has been posted on an additional public tableau.
Article in the free ON community includes link to it and how to find recipes that align with your goals. https://members.optimisingnutrition...m_source=manual And importantly how to Search a database of 1700 recipes and find what you want, including the full nutrient profile in Cronometer. ** WearBear, there is even a search filter for the Oxalate:Calcium Ratio. Quote:
A new Macronutrient Masterclass starts this Saturday, April 20th using these powerful optimised food lists and recipes. Over 4 weeks, you work to refine the foods that give you the satiety and nutrients to progressively meet your goals. https://optimisingnutrition.com/macros-masterclass/ Good discussion of Nutrient Bliss Points in the HAVA interview here: https://forum.lowcarber.org/showpos...05&postcount=38 Though Protein is the most powerful along with the reduction of energy, the nutrient bliss point after that (for me!) is Calcium. On Keto, I was deficient in calcium if limiting dairy to 2T cream and very limited cheese, near the Bliss point. as a senior women need to reach 1200 mg. and with the ON program even more. https://optimisingnutrition.com/cal...ds-and-recipes/ Another good interview on nutrients https://podcast.mikkiwilliden.com/182 |
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