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Does anyone on this forum suffer from SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder)? I've had the 'winter blues' ever since I can remember, but the last couple of years it's become a real problem: fatigue, brain fog, and general depression from the start of the rainy season to when the sun finally decides to make an appearance in the late spring or summer. And here on the Wet, I mean West Coast, this can last from early September to the end of June!
I've been looking online for a SAD forum, but all the websites I've found so far have been selling lightboxes or are information only (often outdated). So, since I'm already here, and you people are already here (and a great bunch you are, too!), I thought I'd take the opportunity to ask. I could sure use some mutual support/info sharing about this. For any of you who don't know, there is in fact a low-carb component to this topic, as SAD sufferers tend to crave carbs during the winter months (I don't, particularly, oddly enough). On one site I visited yesterday, there was even advice to cut carb consumption! I wonder if anyone's done research on low-carbing as being helpful for SAD? Another thumbs up for low-carb if it's shown to help! Rachel |
Hi Rachel,
Yes, I have suffered from S.A.D. for 8 years - at least that's when it was officially diagnosed, I've probably had it longer, like since my teens! I won't go into all the details; I'm sure you know them all too well already. Don't discount phototherapy (the light box). I dug mine out and have been using it every morning since we went back to Daylight Saving Time. They're not all big ugly boxes; mine is a table lamp style (well ok, it IS ugly) but very compact and portable, so it's easy to hide out of site when company drops over. I hate people asking "what's that?" and having to go into a big spiel they don't really want to listen to. Funny thing, even my cats are attracted to it, and immediately come over to it as soon as I turn it on :D it's as if they "know". And it really does help A LOT! How does it help? Melatonin is a neurohormone produced in the pineal gland, this little part of the brain the size of a pea that sits behind the eyeballs. When it gets dark out, the pineal gland starts pumping out the melatonin to help signal the brain it's time for sleep. You've probably heard of melatonin being used as a sleep-aid for shiftworkers and for jet-lag. Anyway, daylight entering the eye signals that it's morning, time to turn OFF the melatonin production and wake up brain. For most people this system works without a hitch. For some of us, our pineal glands just go into overdrive, and the gland seems to be stuck on ON. Phototherapy works by stimulating the pineal to shut off. The light must enter through the eye, although I have read reports that results have been achieved by the light being absorbed throught the skin. Anyway, it is specifically the green and blue wavelengths of sunlight that do the trick. The cool colours. Some charlatans, and others who DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT will try to tell you to use full-spectrum lights, or sun-lamp/tanning bed type lights. That's false. These light sources are high in ultra-violet light emissions and are not safe (for treatment of SAD). Home-made light boxes may not be safe for this same reason. You need to use cool flourescent light, in enough intensity to emulate natural sunlight, and a refractive surface to diffuse any ultra-violet light. I sit beside my lamp for 30 minutes in the morning while I have coffee and read the paper or a magazine. It's not a big deal. How high protein/ low carb diets help is that protein stimulates another pair of neurohormones, dopamine and norepinephrine. These hormones are involved in your alert and awake functioning. Highcarb, and yo-yoing blood sugar causes the brain to absorb more serotonin, yet another neurohormone, which helps to calm, relax and sleep. Too much serotonin and you're depressed and lethargic. Note: neurohormones are sometimes also called neurotransmitters. Same thing. Hope I haven't thoroughly confused you. I'll try to find some good sites on the web. Did you try Psychology Today? A good book is "Don't be SAD" by Celeste Peters. Someone borrowed my copy and I've not seen it since! It's published in Canada, from U of Alberta, I think. Explains the different types of phototherapy, and suggests some diets. There are also chapters on SUMMER SAD which some also get. Sorry you have this, but glad to know you're here! At least someone will understand me come January!! ;) 'bye Doreen |
Re: SAD
(Notice I did NOT pick the smiley with sunglasses - sunglasses Bad! Bright light Good!)
No, you haven't confused me at all Doreen, thanks for the info and support! I don't want to say I'm *glad* you have SAD - but I'm glad that there's a supportive, knowledgeable low-carber such as yourself out there,who knows what I'm talking about. Maybe we can help each other through the coming dark winter months . . . ? I've been tootling around the Web for the past couple of years (on and off) and have found some info, some of which you mentioned (much more clearly and succinctly, I might add!). I'll try to get the Celeste Peters book from the library, as soon as they finish being on strike (but that's another story). I have a light box - like yours it's a "sort-of" desk lamp. I bought it through a medical supply shop so I know I'm using the right thing. I've had it for a couple of years, and I find it helps somewhat, but not enough to put me at summertime levels of mood and energy. Still, it's better than sleeping all day! For me, it seems to work best if I use it for a whole hour in the morning, and then another hour in the late afternoon. I've recently discovered I can rig it up near my computer, so it shines in my eyes while I'm keyboarding, and for some reason the intense light doesn't even bother me. Maybe there's something to the theory that at least some SAD people have reduced sensitivity to light. I hardly ever wear sunglasses, even on the brightest days, and have always loved soaking up the sun, even before I ever heard of SAD. For me, it's not really a depressive thing, it's more of a hibernation thing. If I could sit in my room all winter with my computer, a stack of library books, and a warm fuzzy blanket, I'd probably be quite content. Unfortunately, there's a world out there we have to FUNCTION in, and for me, that's where the depression comes in - when I have neither the motivation nor the energy to do the things I have to do, and then I start beating up on myself. The lack of motivation is particularly a worry because this year I'm self-employed (I'm a writer/editor). I'm finding it almost impossible to drum up new contracts . . . picking up the phone, or even writing or e-mailing complete strangers is next to impossible. I don't know how to handle this aspect of my work. I don't enjoy "selling myself" at the best of times. I really don't know how I'll manage during the winter :( . . . any tips (better yet, job offers! :) ) would be vastly appreciated . . . Well, I've probably gone on long enough. Thanks for listening. My friends are supportive but can't really understand what I'm talking about, and at this point, I think I know almost as much about SAD and its treatment(s) as my doctor does, at least judging by our last conversation. Thanks again, Rachel |
Re: SAD
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:D Took the words right out of my mouth (or keyboard, I should say). I hereby do solemnly swear to give you a verbal boot in the ass whenever you appear to need it, as long as you so swear to do the same for me!! Quote:
Yes, using it later in the day is a recommended treatment for nighttime munchies and carb cravings. It works, too ;). BTW, how strong is yours? Mine is 10,000 lux, and I get headaches if I use it for more than 1/2 hr at a time. Mind you, I have migraines, maybe that is the problem. I also have to wear sunglasses in winter, but here in the Ottawa area, we often get a lot of snow, so there is glare reflecting, even on dull days it seems bright out. Quote:
Me too. Of course, I get the extra whammy of fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. Doesn't seem to affect my sense of humour though! I used to get depressed years ago, partly because I didn't know what the hell was wrong with me (nothing) and partly because I felt guilty that I was letting other people down, because I was always the chauffeur, money lender, hotel keeper (my house was like a drop-in center), disaster and crisis fixer-upper, everyone just loved good ol' Doreen until I got sick, now they have no time, say I'm no fun to be with. I say f**k you, I think I'm a bloody riot :p Now, I take advantage of the solitude; I call it "coccooning". I use the time to do things for myself, creative things like my painting. I'm in the process of setting up a corner of this here computer room as a "studio". My brother built me a nifty easel that I can raise or lower for standing/sitting. And I don't apologise to anybody because I'm not available to entertain them anymore. They can go find somebody else to control. Here are a few websites that have a bit more info (not a lot though) 1. From U of Alberta, this is an article about "winter blues" as opposed to full-blown SAD http://www.crha-health.ab.ca/clin/w...ejan.htm#winter 2. From Clarke Institute in Toronto, a Q&A format interview with Dr. Robert Levitan, rather techy. but up to date http://www.camh.net/CLARKEPages/abo...ffective_d.html 3. MentalHelp.net Humor forum, funny stuff here :D http://community.mentalhelp.net/for...rums.html#humor take care, Doreen |
SAD no more!
I done found a buddy! :D Thanks Doreen! I'm more than happy to kick your butt if you'll kick mine.
My light is 10,000 LUX also. It doesn't seem to bother my eyes; guess I just soak up the rays. I'm using it as I type this, and it doesn't seem to bother me even when I'm looking at the computer screen. I still haven't quite decided if my winter problem is SAD or something else. Well, it must be *something,* since I feel so wretched from fall to late spring. I've never liked winter, but about three years ago, the last winter I spent in London (did my degree in England), I pretty well fell apart - had a hard time working, couldn't concentrate, etc. etc. I was stressed anyway - I think I really wanted to be home again - and I put it down to that. But I remember sitting in the kitchen morning after morning, well into that summer (it was horrible and grey until the end of July, yeeccch) wondering what was the matter with me and if I should see a doctor. I was just so fatigued, couldn't wake up no matter what time it was or how much coffee I drank. It's been the same every winter since. I haven't had a proper medical diagnosis. The first year I was back in Canada I didn't have medical - it took about 8 months to reinstate my provincial plan, was I pissed off - anyway, I did my own research, diagnosed myself, and bought my light box. I should probably see my doctor, though I don't know what she'd tell me that I don't already know. I've observed myself long enough to know that it's definitely seasonal, and the light does help, so I'm not sure what the problem is if it's not SAD. Oddly, I seem to have all the symptoms EXCEPT the carb cravings. I've always gone for the munchies when under stress, and, previously to low-carb, the munchies were chips, chocolate, etc. - the usual - but I never noticed carb cravings getting particularly worse in the winter. Though I've always tended to gain weight during the winter months, and have never successfully dieted in the winter. Even now, on Atkins, I've been "good" - no cheats - since I started, over a month ago, and have lost maybe one pound since Induction. Do you find you have a harder time losing in the winter? I wonder if a general metabolic slowdown accounts for it? You have a lot to struggle with, with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome. At least I feel better in the summertime...good on you for refusing to play caretaker. I live on my own now, too - my daughter grew up and is on her own now, doing well (reminds me, I should call her!). Well, the sun was out today - miracle of miracles! - so I went for a nice long walk on the seawall. Got home about 5:30, and practically fell asleep in my (lc cream of cauliflower) soup. Back to the light box, and this message board. Thanks for listening to these rambles, and thanks for the websites. I've bookmarked the humour one, it's right up my alley! Cheers for now :), Rachel |
Summer sun for winter blues article
Hi, Wa'il! An article with the title above is posted in the "Daily Low Carber" section - would it be any problem to move it to this area of the board so anyone who wants it can find it more easily?
Thanks! Rachel |
How are we doing?
So how are the SAD folk today? Just checking in.
We've been having such amazingly bright, clear weather for November in Vancouver that it's just unbelievable. Along with my daily menus, carb count, etc., I've been tracking the weather and my moods on a daily basis - just trying to get a handle on things. We've only had 3 or 4 cloudy days and only a couple of rainy days since the beginning of the month. Unheard of! Normally November is nonstop rain - wet, cold, windy, and thoroughly miserable - probably the worst month here. Anyway, I'm noticing there's a pretty close correlation between my level of physical energy and the amount of sun we're getting - looking back over my journal, I definitely have a tendency to be more tired on cloudy and especially rainy days, and I'm definitely bouncier on sunny days. I've been using the light for at least an hour every morning and another shot in the late afternoon, unless I've been out for a walk in the sun around that time. The light seems to help, but really it's the SUN that makes the most difference. I know the *kind* of light - sunlight or SAD light - isn't supposed to matter, but for me natural sunlight wins hands down. Maybe it's partly that I can get outdoors when it's sunny - that might make a big difference. It's so easy to turn into a couch potato when the monsoons set in here. (What's a low-carb couch potato? Couch steak? Couch nut? Hmmm.) I've also been experimenting with ephedra for energy. I take a 1/3 dose (8 mg) with coffee twice a day (morning and afternoon). It does seem to help, though it's been less than a week and I can't say for sure yet. The real test will be when the rains set in (may that day be postponed!). I'm hoping that small dose will help combat the fatigue. (I seem to have dropped a pound, too, but that might be coincidence!) I tried St. John's Wort last year, and it seemed to help for a while, but then the effects faded. Again, I was only taking a small dose, maybe I needed to up it. Has anyone else tried St. John's Wort for SAD? Don't worry, I know you're not supposed to mix it with ephedra, and I won't. OK, that's my ramble, for what it's worth. Thanks for being patient. It's nice to have this forum for rumination and working things out - hope it's not too boring! Rachel |
Re: Summer sun for winter blues article
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Sure, it is now in this forum. Wa'il |
Just found this press release/ad. not sure if it has anything meaningfull, but just in case, here it is: Wednesday November 22, 4:11 pm Eastern Time Press Release HealthCentral's WebRx Addresses Seasonal Affective Disorder Web Site Offers Solutions for Winter Holiday Blues EMERYVILLE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 22, 2000--WebRx(SM), the health superstore owned by HealthCentral (HCEN), a leading online provider of health products and information, is offering Tips for SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), as well as a complete line of full-spectrum lighting products. The WebRx(SM) Fit or Fat Q & A department explains how SAD can be diagnosed and treated. Plus, a simple keyword search for ``SAD'' in the WebRx Comfort Living store will link customers directly to a list of products recommended for the treatment of SAD. For some people, the holidays are a special time of year when family and friends gather together and celebrate life with food, gifts and cheer. Unfortunately, for many, the holiday season can also be a time of stress, loneliness, anxiety and depression. Combine this with the shorter days and cold weather and you get Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD), a disease, which often causes decreased energy and increased sleep in the winter, difficulty getting up in the morning, increased appetite with a preference for complex carbohydrate-containing foods, and weight gain. The good news is that SAD can be treated with bright light, exercise and good nutrition. ``It is extremely important that we take care of ourselves,'' said Covert Bailey one of America's best-known fitness experts and best-selling author of Fit or Fat. ``If you start feeling sad or blue, do something about it. Get outside first thing in the morning, exercise, and be sure that you are eating well.'' Tips from the WebRx Fit or Fat Q & A on SAD: 1. Find an alternate exercise plan that allows you to workout inside. 2. When the weather allows, get outside and exercise. Don't let a little snow or rain scare you off. Make it part of the challenge! 3. Get fresh air and light first thing in the morning - even if it is just for a ten-minute casual walk. 4. Buy a lamp that provides artificial sunlight: http://www.comfortliving.com/full_spectrum_c.htm 5. Eat a nutritious and well balanced diet. Fill up on energizing, feel good foods. Don't forget that you can still get lots of vegetables in the winter and that canned fruits are just as good for you. 6. Reach out for help. Talk with your doctor or with others in an off or online community. Volunteer or join a social group so that you are surrounded by supportive people. For more information visit the Fit or Fat and Comfort Living departments on WebRx, (www.webrx.com). |
Re: How are we doing?
Hi Rachel,
It has been really weird here in Southeastern Ontario too. Often bright and sunny in the morning (melts the snow that fell overnight) then cloud over in the afternoon so that it's dark out by 4 pm. Last few days have been so COLD. Tonight, it's -10c, with a windchill of -20. Bbrrrr. :( I might try your idea of using the SADlite in the late afternoon, but only if it's dark and dreary. My computer room/studio has a HUGE window, facing southwest, so I get the sun all afternoon. Dining room window and patio door face southeast so I get the sun right from sunrise on through to noon. (I'm on the top floor, corner unit, it's perfect, I just love this apt.) Quote:
A close look at the cellulite on my thighs prompts me to suggest couch CAULIFLOWER. Quote:
I haven't ruled out ephedra, ie. natural source ma huang. I want to do a little more reading, double-check on interactions with my other meds. 8 mg doesn't sound like a whopping harmful dose. Keep posting how you do with it, I'm curious. Quote:
I have been taking it in the wintertime for three years now, and it does help. It works best if you take it over the long term, not just here and there. Make sure what you have is a standardized extract, 0.3% Hypericin (the active ingredient) with 300 mg per capsule. The usual dose is 300 mg one to three times per day. I only take it once a day, in the morning. It comes in different forms as well; not a lot of info. on the liquid extract drops. I have used FLORA brand, which is gel-caps filled with the hypericin extract, and felt that it was worth buying again. 90 capsules cost around $15. Currently, I have NAKA capsules, which contain 100 mg of powdered StJohn's Wort herb impregnated with 300 mg of the extract. The idea is that other phytochemicals present in the whole herb will enhance the hypericin. Who knows? They do help, and the cost was similar for 90 capsules. I wouldn't waste my money on teas or the whole dried herb in bulk - no guarantee of the hypericin content. Quote:
Rachel, just wait till January and I start into the whining. :rolleyes: Doreen |
Hi, Doreen! (and anyone else who's reading this!)
Nothing to do with SAD, but my brain hurts! I've been marking 1st year research essays (English Comp)for the last couple of days. The level of literacy in most of them is APPALLING. Most of the papers are ESL - OK, you can't *blame* someone for not having a perfect understanding of English if they weren't brought up with it. But how do these people get into college? Some of these papers have so many errors my corrections take up as much room as the typing .... oh, well, just venting. I'm tired and my shoulders hurt.
Why wait till January? Complain now! I like "couch cauliflower"! :) I don't even *look* at my thighs. Well, the monsoons have set in . . . weather forecast for the next five days is rain, rain, and more rain. It was dreary all day today. I don't know whether it's the light, the exercise, or the drugs (ephedra and caffeine), though, I've felt alert and active all day. Of course this is only the beginning of the rains. We'll see how I'm doing this time next week. I've got the standardized extract St. John's Wort. I'm not sure I should take it with the ephedra though. Apparently you're not supposed to take ephedra with a MAO inhibitor, and the Wort acts like one. Apparently. Anyway, I want to test the ephedra just on its own for a while before introducing anything else - no use confounding the variables! So far, the very small dose I've been taking seems to mildly increase energy and mildly decrease appetite. Neither of which I'm complaining about! Oy, I need a back massage . . . and a brain massage! Thanks for listening (reading)! Rachel |
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... add crowds, long checkout lineups, canned department store Christmas music and dysfunctional family dynamics, makes for a total nightmare. Is an effective appetite suppressant though. :p Quote:
Wise advice. Exercise really is key, and it's true, the earlier in the day the better for improving mood, and outdoors preferable. It's just getting oneself in gear, as Rachel pointed out. That's where the buddy system comes in; good friends' encouragement helps when personal motivation fails!! :) Quote:
True. I find I really crave citrus in the winter, when it just happens to be in season. I especially love grapefruit, which is not a bad choice for lowcarbing - 1/2 medium pink grapefruit has 9.2 carbs, and 1.4 gm fiber. That makes it lower than jello SF pudding mix made with cream, and a more satisfying choice, IMHO. just my two cents' worth, Doreen |
SAD rant
My turn.
When I woke up this morning, I thought 'oh no, too early. Just barely dawn - not light out yet.' Hmmph. It was 8:30, and this is how bright it's gonna be for the rest of the day. Pouring rain - bordering on freezing rain, it's leaving a glaze on everything. I want to crawl back into bed and stay there till tomorrow. SIGH Can't do that though. I have so much that I have been neglecting for a while now; I really have been spending way too much time parked in front of this computer. As of right now, I'm on a cyber-diet. I think in fact that I am going to go back to doing my writing with pen and paper; too easy to procrastinate and too easy to find distractions when working in the word processor. And I have a half-finished watercolour begging me to fill in those white spaces! Last night I realized that for weeks, the only phone calls I've had are wrong-numbers, charity soliciting, and Mom (I have DSL, so phone still works while on-line) Many of my old friends and family are on-line too; we exchange e-mails a lot more often than we could ever afford to do with long distance phone calls. But I haven't spoken to some others in weeks, and that is a sad mistake on my part. Anyway, it's time to readjust my priority list, and real life is calling. Just wish I had more energy to contribute to it. I'll stop the introspection now. Today's priorities - given that the weather is screaming 'STAY IN, STAY IN' - will be dealing Mt. Laundry, phoning some friends and finishing a fiction piece I was supposed to hand in last week but writer's block and cyber-distraction . . . . well, you get the drift. Doreen p.s. - I wish there was a little face icon with a tear in the eye for SAD. The blue frown just doesn't express it enough. |
Hallo, Doreen!
By the way, I must say I'm knocked out by your picture, Doreen - I'd pictured you as being much 'starchier' looking somehow - goes to show! ;) I'm not going to post a picture because I'm one of the least photogenic people I know ... sigh.
Sorry I didn't respond earlier, I haven't been posting much the last couple of days. I've just been busy! Just marked a big stack of 1st-year English papers and am now starting a stint of marking college/university English entrance exams. 95% of them are ESL, and a very high percentage are very poorly written. Somehow, reading the resulting 'fractured' English for hours every day scrambles the brain. I'm usually a good typist, and I keep making mistakes this morning. Anyway . . . Sorry you're feeling under the weather - apt phrase, eh? Is it still raining? We had a couple of days of rain here, and I thought "this is it - the monsoons have finally set in" - but yesterday we saw the sun and this morning there's not a cloud in the sky (yet). We've been so lucky this fall. It makes such a difference, because I've hardly felt SAD at all. I know what you mean about the isolation thing kicking in. I'm already dreading Xmas/holiday/whatever invites. It's not that I don't love all these people and want to see them, it's just that I don't want to see them all within a 10-day period! But I feel guilty turning down invites because I know people want to see me and I don't want them to think I'm snubbing them. It's going out in the evenings that gets to me the most. Once it's dark (especially when it's also wet, which is usual for December), I just want to be home. I'd like to see some of your artwork, is there any way you can post it? Chin up, how are you doing today? Rachel |
frustration & aggravation are not good for SAD
Hey Rachel, and anybody else reading this,
Let's just say I've had better days. Didn't sleep a wink last night, too upset about a friend. This morning, I switched on my SADlite, didn't realize it was doing the "fine flicker" thing until the eye throb and headache pounded at my brain. Hmmmmm....... OK, nice bright sun out in morning, and mild temperature for a change. Made plans to go for long walk. While I was soaking in my bath, the clouds moved in and the wind began to howl. Thwarted that plan. Procrastinated over developing a concept and cast of characters for a play I'm supposed to write by next Weds. hahahahahahaaaa! I remind myself that I signed up for this course voluntarily. Read the news and international headlines on the web, posted here a couple times, got nothing done on play. Made a meatloaf for supper, took one bite and decided I'm going to stop eating beef for awhile. Does that ever happen to you?? One mouthful and I didn't think it would go down, and yet it sure smelled wonderful baking. Head was still pounding, and I wanted to go to bed. Eyelids felt like lead and my body felt like jelly. Decided that fresh air would be better. So, I went to the mall, surprisingly it wasn't all that crowded (thank god). Bought some stuff I hadn't planned to, AND bought replacement bulb for SADlite. Now I'm home, and I find it's the WRONG size bulb. Aaaargh :eek: I tell you, I want to run away from home. Or maybe I should just fling myself off my balcony. Doreen |
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